Chapter V: Excerpt From Report of Mr. Peterkin, General Inspector of Board (19)

4804. Were you a landholder at that time?-No; but I was living in my father's house, and I was bound to fish for Mr. Bruce like the rest.

4805. What was the document you were asked to sign?-The general tenor of his statement was, that he was to give the current price, and I was bound to fish for him while I was living on his estate.

4806. Have you any objection to adhere to that bargain?-I am of the opinion that, if I had had my freedom, I might have made a little more from my fish than I have done.

4807. But would you not have your freedom simply by removing to another place?-Not in Dunrossness.

4808. You mean not on his land?-No, nor on Mr. Grierson's land. I would be bound to fish for Grierson under the same rules if I were to remove to his property.

4809. Do you live with your father still?-No; my father is an old man, and he has ceased to hold land.

4810. Do you consider yourself still bound to fish for Mr. Bruce, even although your father does not hold any land from him?-Yes; I consider I am bound while I am living on his estate.

4811. Have you any copy of the agreement which you signed?- No.

4812. Where did you sign it?-In the shop at Grutness.

4813. Who asked you to sign it?-Mr. Bruce's factor, or his farmer who was in Sumburgh at that time who was sent round among the tenants with a letter from old Mr. Bruce, intimating to them that his son was to take the district into his own hands, that they were to fish for him, and that any one refusing to fish was to leave.

4814. That is the letter which Laurence Smith has spoken of?- Yes.

4815. But did you sign anything?-Yes, I signed a paper, stating that I would rather stay and fish for him than that I would flit.

4816. Was that after the letter had been sent round among the tenants?-Yes.

4817. How long after?-A few days perhaps,-not more.

4818. Were you asked to go to the shop and sign it?-Yes.

4819. Were any others asked to sign it?-I believe there were.

4820. Was it the factor who asked you to sign it?-Yes. Gilbert Irvine was the factor; he asked me to sign it, and I signed to him. The paper was there, ready for us to sign.

4821. Was it read over to you?-Yes.

4822. What was the substance of it?-The substance of it was just what I have stated-that if we would fish to Mr. Bruce on these terms, we could stay on the land; and if not, then we would have to go.

4823. Were there many people who signed it at the same time with you?-No.

4824. Was there anybody else who signed it at the same time?-I could not exactly say. I don't think there was anybody in the house when I signed it, but there were a great many names to it before I went in.

4825. Was it signed by landholders only, or by those who had merely a room?-There were very few at that time who merely held a room. There are not many yet who do so; but the document was signed generally by the fishermen who fished there.

4826. Was the thing you signed an obligation to fish for Mr. Bruce so long as you occupied a room or a house on his ground?-Yes; I so understood it.

4827. But if you ceased to occupy that house or room you would be free?-Yes; and we could go to another place.

4828. You settle every year in the spring?-Yes.

4829. Do you generally have a balance in your favour?-Not very often. I have no land, and therefore I have to rely upon my own fishing, or what work I can do for him when I am called upon to work.

4830. Are you bound to work for Mr. Bruce as well as to fish for him?-I am not bound to work for him; but if I am in debt to him, of course he will call me out to work.

4831. But he will pay you for it?-Yes; but I am not quite satisfied with that pay. It is only a penny for one hour's work.

4832. Does that go into your account?-Yes.

4833. Have you got any pass-book at the shop?-No; I have no pass-book there. I see the articles which I receive from him entered into his book, and I told the price of most of the things when they supplied to me; but the principal thing which I get from the store is meal, and I never know the price of it until the day when I come to settle, or until I hear it from any person who has settled before me for the same year.

[Page 120]

4834. Do you know what price you paid for it at last settlement?- I paid the same price for it as the other witnesses you have examined-22s. for Scotch oatmeal, and 20s. for barley-meal.

4835. Do you think you could have got your meal cheaper than that elsewhere?-Yes, I am under that impression.

4836. Have you asked the price of it elsewhere?-Yes; Mr. Hay's factor at Dunrossness had meal which was cheaper at that time.,

4837. That was in the spring of last year?-Yes.

4838. How much cheaper was it?-I cannot remember exactly; but if I had had money, I could have purchased it cheaper at many places besides that.

4839. Did you not get advances of money in the course of the year from Mr. Bruce?-Yes.

4840. Could you not have got as much as you asked?-I did not want to ask more than I thought I could stand to. I did not want to get far in debt to him.

4841. Did you get a balance at last settlement paid to you in money?-Yes; if I had a balance at the end of the year, it was paid to me in money.

4842. But did you get a balance last year?-I was about clear then.

4843. You were not much more than clear?-No.

4844. Do you remember how much you got at that time?-I asked for £1 of advance from him at the settlement, and he gave it to me.

4845. Do you mean £1 more than the balance due to you?-Yes.

4846. Were you in debt at the previous settlement in 1870?-Yes.

4847. Were you also in debt in 1869?-Yes.

4848. Was the balance also on the wrong side for you in 1868?-I don't think it.

4849. Do you think you had something to get in 1868?-If I remember right I had.

4850. Do you remember how you stood in 1867?-I think that I was clear.

4851. But you had not much to get?-No.

4852. You are a married man and have a family?-Yes.

4853. Is there anything you wish to add to what you have heard the previous witnesses say?-Nothing further than just that I am not satisfied with my wages.

4854. Have you not something to say yourself in fixing your charges?-No.

4855. How is that? You need not work unless you know what wages you are to get beforehand?-No; but there is no general work there to work at. Mr. Bruce is the only man who has work to do and when a man is in necessity he must work.

4856. Can you not get land of your own?-No; I am not able to hold any land, because my family are sickly, and are not able to work upon it.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, HANS MAINLAND, examined.

4857. You are a fisherman at Northtown of Exnaboe, on the land of Mr Bruce of Sumburgh?-I am.

4858. Have you heard the evidence of the previous witnesses?- Yes.

4859. Has it generally been a correct description of your way of dealing with the shop at Sumburgh, and with Mr. Bruce for your fish?-So far as regards the store, I have never been obliged to take anything from it. I always went and bought my goods for ready money from any place where I could get them cheapest.

4860. Why was that?-Because as a general rule, I heard the people complaining that they were obliged to take their goods from the store, and that they were dearer there than they could be got elsewhere.

4861. Had you any difficulty in getting the balance due to you at the settlement at the end of the year in cash?-No.

4862. You always got money?-Yes.

4863. Was money also advanced to you in the course of the year before settlement, if you wanted it?-Yes, if I asked for it.

4864. What amount might you get advanced before settlement?- If I had asked it, I would have got perhaps £10 or £20. Of course I had a little money in Mr. Bruce's hands, so that I was not requiring to draw any money from him that was not due to me.

4865. Is there anything you wish to add to the evidence which has been given already?-There is one thing I should like to say with regard to the present law on the subject of leases. Mr. Bruce has the power of turning out men who have made a great many improvements on his estate, and perhaps, they may be turned out without receiving any compensation whatever. I am one of those who have done it great deal for it. I have expended upwards of £100 worth of labour and material on his ground.

4866. Before laying out that expense could you not have made an arrangement with the landlord that he should repay you for it if you were turned off?-So far as I am aware, he has never been prepared to give any rules or regulations to that effect.

4867. Has he not offered you a lease?-He has offered us a lease; but I don't think there is any party in Shetland who would accept of it.

4868. Have you ever applied for a different lease?-I have never applied for a lease at all. There was no use doing so, so far as I knew. But I think that when a party lays out money in improvements on master's estate he ought to be paid for it.

4869. But a man who lays out money upon another man's, land knows quite well before he begins that he will not be paid for it, and he takes the risk of the landlord being kind enough and able to repay him part of these expenses. It may very well be that the landlord is a poor enough man as well as the tenant, and that he cannot afford to put improvements upon his land; and yet the tenant goes and spends a lot of money on it, expecting the landlord to repay him for improvements which the landlord himself would not have made, if he had had the land in his own hands?-That may be quite true; but so far as I have understood, Mr. Bruce has always taken a great interest in having improvements made upon his land.

4870. That, however, is hardly a question into which I can enter here unless you think it has some bearing upon the system of payments at the shop, or the system of payments for the fish?-It has no bearing upon these questions at all, so far as I am aware, except perhaps in this way, that for four months in the winter season the fishermen are lying at home to a great extent, idle. The fishing commences about 1st May, and it finishes in the end of August. Then they have to gather in their summer crops; and during the winter season, and the early part of the spring, they have very little to do; while a person of an active turn of mind does not like to remain idle for such a length of time. They want to be doing something, and they will engage to any one who has work to give them.

4871. Have you anything more to say about that?-I have nothing more to say except this, that when person is a tenant at will, and liable to be removed after having made improvements on the estate of any proprietor, he ought to receive compensation for these improvements.

4872. Would it be possible for fishermen in Shetland to carry on the business of fishermen alone without being tenants?-Not so far as my judgment goes.

4873. Why?-Because the small earnings from the fishing could not support him, neither could the land itself support him in the way it is laid down present.

4874. And I suppose, if the holdings of land were larger, a man would have no time to attend to the fishing?-No, he would not. If the holdings were larger, of course the men would have to occupy the whole of their time with the ground.

4875. Don't you think that, with an improved system of agriculture, you would find enough occupation on [Page 121] holdings of the present size for the whole year?-Not in my opinion; they are too small for that.

4876. Not even by following out the rules and regulations which Mr. Bruce has offered you?-No.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, ADAM LESLIE, jun., examined.

4877. You are a fisherman at Toab, in Dunrossness?-I am.

4878. Have you heard the evidence of the previous witnesses?- Yes.

4879. Does it fairly describe the system under which you hold your land and fish for Mr. Bruce of Sumburgh, and the way in which you deal at his shop?-Yes, I think it does.

4880. Is there any addition you wish to make to the evidence which has been given, or any correction upon it?-No.

4881. Have you a pass-book at the shop?-No.

4882. Do you deal at the shop at Grutness for the goods you want for your family?-In part I do.

4883. Do you find that, at the end of the year, you have generally a balance in your favour, or is it against you?-I cannot say that it is much against me.

4884. Do you get payment of that balance in money?-Yes.

4885. Do you also get advances in money, in the course of the year before settlement, if you want them?-Yes; whenever I ask for them. Our place is far away from the bank, and sometimes Mr. Bruce may have run out of money by so many people having gone and asked it from him; but if I go to him and ask him for money, and he does not have it, he tells me when to come back and get it.

4886. In that case, when you get the money, do you spend it generally at Mr. Bruce's shop, or do you go and deal at some other store with it?-I generally go to some other store.

4887. Do you find that you get your goods cheaper at another store than at his?-I am under that impression, but I never compared his goods with those of other merchants.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, GEORGE WILLIAMSON, examined

4888. You are a fisherman at Eastshore, Dunrossness, and a tenant on Mr Bruce's land?-I am.

4889. You have been there for thirteen years?-Yes.

4890. Do you remember a time when the fishermen got their freedom there?-That was before I came to the place.

4891. Were they understood formerly to be bound?-Yes, in old times they were bound; but, just about time when I came there, old Mr. Bruce gave them their liberty, and they were all free.

4892. Was there an understanding previously, that they were bound to fish only to him, or to his tacksmen?-Yes: but, two or three years before I came they got their liberty.

4893. Was there any payment made for that?-Each landholder had to pay 15s. a year for his freedom.

4894. Was that just an addition to their rent?-Yes.

4895. The rents were raised, and the fishermen had liberty to do as they liked about their fish?-Yes.

4896. From whom did you learn that?-It was given out by Mr. Bruce, and by all the tenants.

4897. But you said you were not there at the time?-I was not.

4898. Then you learned that when you came from common report?-Yes, just from common report.

4899. Was your father a landholder there?-No. I removed from Mr. Bruce of Simbister's ground to that place.

4900. Have you held your ground at the same rent for the thirteen years you have been there?-No. The rent has been raised a good deal since I came, in addition to the 15s.

4901. During all your time have you been free to deliver your fish to any person you chose?-I was free to do so until twelve years back, when I became bound to deliver my fish to Mr. John Bruce.

4902. That was by the letter which has been spoken of already?- Yes.

4903. You have heard the evidence of William Goudie, and the other men who have been examined?-Yes.

4904. Was it generally correct as to the way in which you deal about your fish?-So far as I could judge, I have not heard a wrong statement made to-day; and there has been nothing left for me to add to it.

4905. You agree with them that you can get money when you ask for it?-Yes.

4906. Is the bulk of the price of your fish paid to you in money or in goods?-I take goods according as I require them. I have meal and other things; and whatever is over, after paying my account at the shop and my rent, is cheerfully paid to me, the same as I would pay it to my son. There is not a freer man at paying money to his tenants than Mr. Bruce is. I have been £6 in debt, and asked him for advances, and he has given them to me.

4907. Was that after settlement?-Yes.

4908. And, of course, that was given to you on the understanding that you were to be fishing for him next year?-Yes; I was fishing for him by sea, and working for him by land.

4909. If you had not been fishing for him, would you have got an advance of that sort?-But I was fishing for him, so that I cannot tell that.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, JAMES FLAWES, examined.

4910. You are a fisherman, and tenant under Mr. Grierson at Rennesta, near Quendale?-I am.

4911. Are you under any obligation to deliver your fish to Mr Grierson?-Yes.

4912. Is he a fish-merchant and fish-curer?-He is a fish-merchant, and he has men under him for curing his fish.

4913. Is your obligation a written one, or is it part of a verbal lease of your land?-When young Mr. Grierson got the fishing, he read out a statement to his tenantry at large, in the schoolroom at Quendale.

4914. How long ago was that?-Twelve years ago. That statement which he read gave the tenantry to understand that he was to become their fish-merchant, or the man they were to deliver their fish to; and that they were all bound to give him every tail of their fish from end to end of the season, as long as they held their land under him. If they did not do that, they knew the consequences: they would be turned out.

4915. Was that all stated to you in the schoolroom on that occasion?-Yes; it was all read off by Mr. Grierson himself.

4916. Were you present?-Yes.

4917. Did he state that you would be paid for your fish according to the current price at the time of settlement?-Yes; that was stated also at that time.

4918. Was it stated how that current price was to be ascertained?-It was to be the currency of the country, particularly the prices paid by three or four merchants who dealt in the same kind of fish that he received from his tenants.

4919. Did Mr. Grierson name the four merchants whose prices were to rule?-The four merchants who generally agree together are Mr. John Robertson, [Page 122] Messrs. Hay, Mr. Bruce of Sumburgh, and Mr. Grierson.

4920. How do you know that these merchants agree together as to the prices?-Because the tenants of the whole of them generally get the same price for their fish.

4921. Do not all the tenants in Shetland generally get the same price for their fish each season?-No; there is a difference.

4922. Do you know that the tenants of these four parties always get one price?-Yes; generally it is the same price that is given to them all.

4923. Do you know that the tenants on other estates get a different price?-Yes, I know that.

4924. Can you mention any case in which that has happened?- Yes. There are a few merchants in Sandwick parish who get fish from a few boats there-James Smith, James Mouat, and Thomas Tulloch-and they always give a little higher.

4925. Do these merchants keep shops as well?-Yes, they have shops too.

4926. Do the men who fish for them deal at their shops?-I understand they do.

4927. Can you tell me how much Tulloch and Smith have paid for their fish?-In some years they give 6d. per cwt. more than Mr. Grierson and the other merchants I have mentioned, and for some kinds of fish 9d. more.

4928. What price did you receive for your fish at last settlement?-Last year, I think, we got 7s. for ling, or 7s. 3d., I could not exactly say which; 5s. 6d. for cod, and 3s. 6d. for saith.

4929. Do you know how much the fishermen got from Tulloch and Smith?-I could not exactly say, but they got a little more.

4930. You knew that at the time?-Yes, I knew it at the time from the fishermen who were giving their fish to them.

4931. Do you know how much more they got?-I think it was 9d. more on some fish, and 6d. more on others. It might be a little more; but, I think, I am safe to say that.

4932. Do you know anything about the prices of goods at the stores of Tulloch and Smith?-No. I never bought anything from them.

4933. Young Mr. Grierson, whom you mentioned as having taken the fishing in 1861, is now the proprietor of the estate?-Yes.

4934. Does the obligation which was then imposed upon you extend to the sons of his tenants, as well as to the tenants themselves?-It extends to all.

4935. Do you know of any case in which any man upon the land has delivered his fish to another fishcurer than Mr. Grierson, and has been challenged or turned out for that?-I know one.

4936. Who was that?-Thomas Johnston, Garth, Quendale, son of John Johnston. He was out of a chance of fishing for Mr. Grierson at his station, but he got a chance to fish for Messrs. Hay, and because he went and fished for them, he could not come back to his father's house, but had to remain all winter and vore (<i.e.> spring) with the man he fished for. Then he came back next spring and fished for Mr. Grierson again.

4937. Who prevented him from coming back to his father's house, if he had chosen to do so?-He was told by Mr. Grierson, that if he went and fished for another person, he would have to stop away, and that if he came back, it would be his father's warning.

4938. How long ago was that?-I don't recollect exactly; perhaps two or three years ago.

4939. How do you know that that warning would have been given to John Johnston?-Because it was part of the arrangement with Mr. Grierson from the very outset.

4940. But how do you know that Thomas Johnston was told he must leave the land and that his father would be turned out if he came back?-Because he told me so himself, and he evidenced it by staying away.

4941. Was it not more convenient for him to live near the station where he was fishing for Hay & Co., than to remain in his father's house?-He had to leave his own house and go away down to the west voe to fish.

4942. But was it not more convenient for himself to go there?- Yes, it was handier for him to live near the place where he was fishing.

4943. Are you sure that was not the reason why he left his father's house?-But the man he fished for did not live at that station: his house was away upon the west side.

4944. Was he not upon Mr. Grierson's land?-No, not that man.

4945. Do you know the case of any other man being challenged or threatened because he sold his fish to another fish merchant than Mr. Grierson?-Yes, I know of another case-James Shewan on the ground of Brough, belonging to Mr. Grierson's estate.

4946. How long is it since that case happened?-It was last year.

4947. What do you know about it?-Shewan did not have a chance of fishing at home for Mr. Grierson, and he also took a chance at the ness with Messrs. Hay & Co. They fished from the west voe then.

4948. What was the consequence?-The consequence was that Shewan had to pay £1 of liberty money.

4949. When was that?-This year.

4950. Was it before last settlement?-No; it was at this settlement.

4951. Is the settlement over at Quendale for last season?-Almost. There were a few boats not settled with when we came up.

4952. How do you know that Shewan had to pay liberty money this year? Did he tell you that he had had to pay it?-Yes.

4953. Did you see him pay it?-I did not.

4954. Was it added to his account when settling?-I cannot tell you whether it was included in the settlement, or whether he had paid it some months before.

4955. When did he tell you about it?-He told me when he had settled.

4956. How long ago is that?-It is not very long; perhaps it week or two since.

4957. Is James Shewan a tenant of Mr. Grierson's?-Yes.

4958. Was it not it part of his bargain, on taking his land, that he should deliver his fish to his landlord?-Yes.

4959. And was not that £1 which he paid just a penalty for breach of contract?-Yes; but then he did not have a chance of fishing for Mr. Grierson. There were no men on Mr. Grierson's estate who could fill up a boat with him, the men that he had previously been going with having joined another crew; and therefore he had to go to some other place where he could earn something.

4960. Were Mr. Grierson's crews all filled up at that time?-Yes.

4961. Could Shewan not have brought his share of his boat's fish to Mr. Grierson and delivered them to him, although the rest of the men were fishing for Hay and Co.?-He might have done that; but I don't know very well about it.

4962. That would have been very inconvenient I suppose?-Yes, very.

4963. Do you know of any other case of the same kind?- No.

4964. Or of any case of a person being told that he must fish entirely to Mr. Grierson without being threatened?-We knew quite well from the statement which was made to us before, that if any one transgressed the rule, the penalty would just be our forty days warning.

4965. Do you deal at the Quendale store?-Yes.

4966. Who is the storekeeper there?-Ogilvy Jamieson.

4967. Is the shop at a convenient place for your people and for most of the fishermen round about?-Yes, it is very convenient.

4968. Does Jamieson receive your fish as well as attend to the shop?-Yes. There is a factor under [Page 123] him who receives the fish, but Jamieson is over all, both over the shop and the fish.

4969. What is the name of the factor who receives the fish?-It is sometimes one man and sometimes another.

4970. Do you run an account at the shop?-Yes.

4971. Are you expected to deal there, or have you freedom to deal where you like for what you want for your families?-We are quite at liberty to deal anywhere we choose, if we had only the means in our possession to do it.

4972. How is that you have not the means?-Because we have not got the money.

4973. Does Mr. Grierson advance you money in the course of the year before settlement when you ask for it?-He does.

4974. Can you not take that money and deal with it at any other store that suits you better than Mr. Grierson's?-We do that very often.

4975. Then, how is it that you say you have not the means of dealing where you choose?-What I mean by that is, that we don't have the chance to do it so often as we would like to do it; and we don't like to be always running to him for money for the small things we require. It is only in particular cases when we require a pound or so to help us that we ask it from him.

4976. What other shops are there convenient for you?-The only shop that I can make better out of than Mr. Grierson's in our district is Mr. Gavin Henderson's at Scousborough.

4977. Is that near Dunrossness kirk?-It is to the north and west of it.

4978. Do you prefer to go to Henderson's store because the goods are cheaper and better there?-Yes.

4979. Are they both cheaper and better?-We generally think so.

4980. Can you give me any particular case in which you have found them to be so?-I have never made an exact comparison of the things to find out the precise difference; but when we are to buy a suit of clothes for instance, we think we can make as good bargain at Henderson's shop as we can do at any shop in Shetland.

4981. Have you bought a suit of clothes both at that shop and at Mr. Grierson's?-I have never bought a full suit of clothes at Mr. Grierson's, but I have done so at Gavin Henderson's.

4982. What is the price of meal at Quendale store?-I could not tell exactly, because I have not had any there during the last two years, my little farm having supplied me with all I wanted.

4983. What is the price of tea at the two stores?-The prices of tea at both these stores are much the same. There are three different prices of tea at the two stores, but we rather think that Henderson's tea is generally better for the prices charged than Mr. Grierson's is.

4984. Have you tried the moleskins also?-Yes; and if I were buying with ready money out of Grierson's shop, I don't think the difference between them would be worth mentioning.

4985. But is there a difference according as you buy with ready money or pay at the settlement?-Yes. If I buy a pair of trousers for ready money, I get them down 1d. per yard. The cloth is marked 3s. per yard, and I get 1d. off the yard. Then if I buy a shirt of 3 yards, and if I pay ready money for it, I get reduction of 1d. per yard on 9d. or 10d.

4986. Do you get your goods cheaper at Henderson's shop even with that discount?-Yes. If I go to Henderson's shop without the money, he will not take any more for the goods than he would do even if I had the money with me.

4987. Will he give you the goods as cheap as at Grierson's?-Yes; as cheap as if I had bought them at Grierson's with ready money.

4988. Is there any other reason why you would prefer not to deal at Mr. Grierson's shop for your goods?-We would have no great objection to deal at his shop if we were paid a little better for our fish. It is our opinion that we are not paid for our fish altogether as we might be.

4989. But you get the currency of the country?-Yes; and we sign for that.

4990. Do you think you should get more than the currency of the country?-We cannot exactly judge of the state of the market, but from what we hear and from what we see in the papers, we think the merchants take rather too much profit, and that we would be a little better if we received the money for the sale of our fish ourselves.

4991. Do you think you would be better off if you had a price fixed for your fish at so much per cwt. at the beginning of the season?-That would depend upon circumstances.

4992. Taking a number of years together, do you think you could make a better bargain for yourselves in that way?-I think so. The three men I mentioned in Sandwick parish generally give an agreement to state something like what they will give, and they seem to stand by it pretty well whatever the price may be.

4993. Would the fishermen not object to that sort of arrangement?-I don't know. I don't think the fishermen in general would object to any agreement by which they might know what they were working for during the season, although I really cannot say that they could make any more decided efforts for catching fish than they do under present circumstances.

4994. But even although the price were fixed at the beginning of the season, the fishermen would still have an inducement to exert themselves as much as possible in order that they might have a large catch?-They would; but I say that I don't know how they could exert themselves to do more than they do already.

4995. Still, they would have exactly the same reason for exertion?-Yes.

4996. Do you think if the price were fixed at the beginning of the season, and it turned out that the current price of fish was much higher than that fixed with the men at the commencement, they would try to get out of their bargain, and demand the higher price that was current?-There comes the difficulty. We who catch the fish would always like to get as high a price for them as we can; but if we make an agreement, we must stand by it. However, if the merchants could afford to give 6d. or 1s. more according to the state of the markets, and did not give it, we would rather look down upon them for taking such a large price, and not giving us part of the advantage of it.

4997. But you ought to recollect that in another year you might have made a bargain for the same price, and the price received by the fish-curers might be less, so that there would be a loss to them?-Yes; but, I think the men in general would be prepared to run the risk of the rise and fall in the markets in that way, or, if they made a bargain, they would stick to it.

4998. Have you known any case in which men engaged to fish on such terms, and finding the price higher than that which they had bargained for, asked that higher price from the fish-curer?-I cannot say that I have known any case.

4999. You don't know whether that has ever occurred in Shetland?-No, I don't know anything about that.

5000. Do you know anything about the employment of beach boys?-A little. I had a boy employed this year at the beach.

5001. Is there considered to be an obligation upon the Quendale tenants to allow their sons to be employed as beach boys?-Yes, whenever called for.

5002. Is that obligation enforced?-Yes, it is just the same as with all the rest. The landlord says, 'If I call for your son to cure fish for me, and you object to it, then I can lay whatever penalty I choose upon you, and either remove you or impose a fine.'

5003. Do you know of any case where that has occurred?-No; because the tenants know exactly what the consequences would be, and they are frightened to do anything in opposition to their landlord's wishes. We are all poor people together, and not very well able to bear fines or removals.

[Page 124]

5004. What are the wages for a beach boy?-An active beach boy for his first year at Quendale will get 30s. for about five months in the year. That is his whole wage.

5005. Could he get more in any other employment in Shetland?- In some cases Messrs. Hay's factor would give more for beach boys than they would get beside us.

5006. What is the age of a boy who would get that wage?-From twelve to fourteen or sixteen years; and if a boy goes two or three years to the beach, his wages are raised every year.

5007. How are their wages paid?-If they take goods from the shop, these are marked down against them.

5008. Are they marked down in the father's account, or in a separate account in the boy's own name?-In a separate account in the boy's own name.

5009. Has your son been long in that employment?-I have only had one of my sons at it for one year.

5010. Is he to be employed this year again in the same way?-Yes.

5011. Had he a balance in his favour when he was settled with?- He has not been settled with yet. He was employed for the year which has just come to an end; but I don't think he will have very much to get, as he had no clothes to speak of when he began, and he was very glad of the chance of winning a little, so that he might get a suit of clothes.

5012. Has it been a common case within the last two or three years for the fishermen who are employed in the way you have described to have a balance in their favour at settlement, or have they usually had balance against them?-During the last two or three years a good many of Mr. Grierson's fishermen have had a very good balance to come to them to account, but I and some others have been behind and could not get clear.

5013. Are there many of that sort?-There are few.

5014. Is it worse for a man of that kind to leave and get free of his obligation to fish than for a man that has cash to receive to do so?-Under Mr. Grierson's arrangement there is no difference between the two kinds of men as regards getting their liberty to fish to any other man, because none of them have any such liberty.

5015. The obligation to fish depends on the holding of land; it does not depend on the amount of debt due to Mr. Grierson?-No, it does not depend upon that.

5016. Are there many men there who fish for Mr. Grierson and who do not hold land?-Yes, there are a good few.

5017. Are they under any obligation to fish for him?-They are all under one obligation from head to foot.

5018. How does that happen in the case of men who do not hold land?-Because they are all on Mr. Grierson's ground.

5019. Would the party they live with be warned if they were not to fish for him?-That was in his first arrangement.

5020. Is that arrangement still in force?-I never knew of any alteration being made upon it.

5021. Have you been told anything about that obligation since it was read over to you in 1861?-No; there have been no cases in which it has been broken except the two I have mentioned, and we saw what happened.

5022. But you have not been spoken to about it at all?-No.

5023. Or reminded about it?-No, we have never been reminded about it; but we signed then to fish for Mr. Grierson, and we have heard of no other arrangement.

5024. How do you supply yourselves with fishing materials?-We generally take them from Mr. Grierson's shop.

5025. Are you under any sort of obligation to take them from there?-We are just under the same sort of obligation to take them from his shop as we are to take anything, because we generally cannot get them anywhere else. We never ask money to go and get them anywhere else, although it is our opinion that if we could go elsewhere, we would get them a little cheaper-that is, our fishing lines.

5026. Where would you go for them?-We could buy them in some shops in Lerwick a little cheaper.

5027. But you would have a long way to carry them if you were to buy them here?-Yes; but we don't think much of our travel sometimes when we can make good bargain.

5028. Have you anything more to say about the state of matters in your neighbourhood?-I have nothing more to say at present; only, if I am at liberty to do so, I should like to say on Mr. Grierson's behalf that, as a landlord, he has been very favourable to me and to many of the tenants. He has supplied us with goods and helped us, when we were not very well able to help ourselves; and he has continued to do that in my case to the present time. If I am in debt to him, he never charges me for that debt; but I am at liberty to sell any animal off my farm if I choose, without him asking anything about it.

5029. Are you a little behind just now?-I am a good bit behind just now.

5030. But you could still get an advance of money if you needed it?-Yes. The shopkeeper told me when I was settling, that if I wanted from 1s. to £1, I could get it from him any time I asked for it.

5031. Do you get all your things at his shop?-Not altogether. When I have a little money beside me, I can get them from any quarter. The fact is that I sometimes go there with money, and get the things cheaper than if I were getting them on credit. For instance, if I ask for a quarter pound of stick tobacco, I will get it for 1s. if I pay for it with money; while if it is marked down to me, it will be 1s. 1d. Now, we do think that is very unreasonable, as they have a profit both on our fish and on our goods, and we are very much dissatisfied about it.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, GEORGE GOUDIE, examined.

5032. You are a fisherman and tenant on the estate of Mr. Grierson of Quendale?-Yes; at Garth.

5033. Have you heard the evidence of James Flawes?-Yes.

5034. Is it generally a correct statement of the obligation you are under to fish to Mr. Grierson, and of the way in which you settle for your fish?-So far as I know, it is.

5035. Do you get money paid to you when you want it in the course of the season?-Yes.

5036. But is the greater part of the price of your fish got out in goods from Mr. Grierson's shop?-Yes, the greater part.

5037. What balance did you receive at last settlement?-I had no balance to receive. It was against me.

5038. Had most of the men a balance against them at last settlement?-I suppose the greater part of them had.

5039. Have you got a note of your settlement?-No.

5040. Did you get any receipt or pass-book or account?-No.

5041. Is your account read over to you at the settlement?-Yes, if we want to have it read. The shop account, if we want it, will be read over to us.

5042. If it is not read over, how do you know whether it is correctly charged or not?-The men who do not keep a note of their accounts for themselves cannot know whether they are correct or not even by hearing them read over.

5043. Are you generally content to trust to the shopkeeper for the accuracy of your account?-Yes.

5044. Do you know anything about the quality of the meal that is sold there, and the price of it?-Yes.

5045. Have you been getting meal from the shop [Page 125] during the last year or two?-Yes. Mr. Grierson's meal last year was from 2s. to 3s. per boll above what Mr. Gavin Henderson charged for his.

5046. Was the quality of Henderson's meal as good?-Yes; quite as good.

5047. Have you tried them both in your own house?-Yes.

5048. What was the price of the one and of the other?-Mr. Grierson's bear-meal was 14s. per boll-that is Shetland grain; and Gavin Henderson charged 12. for Shetland meal also.

5049. Does Mr Grierson's shopkeeper charge the same price for meal all through the year?-Yes; for the same kind of meal.

5050. All the meal of the same kind in your account is charged at the same rate throughout the year?-Yes.

5051. But at Gavin Henderson's, it is charged to you according to the price at the time you buy it: the price varying at different periods of the same year?-Yes, it varies a little; but Mr. Grierson's meal also varies when the price elsewhere varies.

5052. Then you may have meal charged at different rates in the same account?-Yes.

5053. Is there any other article, the price of which you have compared with what you could get it for elsewhere?-Yes, there is tobacco. If we buy a single ounce we pay 31/2d., and 2 oz. 6d., at Quendale store. In Gavin Henderson's we can get a single ounce for 3d., and 2 oz. are charged 6d. also.

5054. Is there anything else you can speak to?-No, I don't think there is anything else.

5055. Is there anything else you wish to say in addition to what James Flawes has said?-No.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, CHARLES EUNSON, examined.

5056. You are a fisherman, and a tenant of Mr. Grierson's at Waterbru?-I am.

5057. Is that near Quendale?-It is about a mile and a half away.

5058. Have you heard the evidence of James Flawes and George Goudie?-Yes.

5059. Is it generally correct with regard to the system of dealing at the shop and for your fish?-I think so.

5060. Is there anything you wish to add to it?-Nothing with respect to that; but I had a little experience once with regard to liberty money. Before the time when Mr. Grierson and Mr. Bruce took the fishings into their own hands-for they were both in company when they started with that-we had enjoyed our liberty all along, and had never been obliged to fish for our proprietors; but at that time we were taken in hand along with the rest of Mr. Grierson's tenants, and we had to fish for them. That lasted only for three years, and then the contract was broken, and each started on his own account.

5061. Was that before or after the statement which was made by Mr. Grierson at Quendale?-It was three years after it. When the contract was broken, Mr. Grierson had no place handy for us to land our fish at and deliver them to him, as we lived farther from Quendale than the rest of his tenants; and therefore at that time again we got our liberty and fished for whom we chose. He exacted nothing for that, and things went on in that way, I think, for three years; but at the end of that time Mr. Grierson took a station at Voe, on the east side of the parish, where he had had no place previously, and he told us that we would be obliged to deliver our fish to him, like the rest of his tenants. During the three years before we were put under that obligation, we had been fishing at the Ness, and had been at considerable trouble and expense in forcing a beach, and making other things right for curing our own fish. We were unwilling to lose the whole of that, and we applied to Mr. Grierson to allow us to continue to fish at the Ness; and he told us that if we paid three guineas of liberty money, he would allow us to fish there. We offered to pay that liberty money for one season, but it was a bad season; there were not many fish, and the price was low; and we went to Mr Grierson and asked him if he would take our fish. He consented to take them in a dry state; and he deducted 6d. per cwt. for the three guineas for every cwt. we delivered to him; so the result was that we had to pay him about £1 and upwards.

5062. In what year was that?-It is four years ago; it must have been in 1867.

5063. Then these fish would be settled for at the annual settlement?-Yes.

5064. Did you get any account of that year's settlement?-No; I would have got it if I had asked for it, but I never asked it.

5065. Who did you settle with that year?-With Mr. Grierson himself.

5066. You did not settle with Mr. Jamieson?-No; he had not come to the place at that time. There was another man there in the place which Mr. Jamieson now has, but we did not settle with him.

5067. Do you know anything about the price or quality of the meal at Quendale store as compared with other places?-It is a great deal better now than it used to be eleven or twelve years ago; it was not very satisfactory then, but it is not so bad now. The difference between the meal there and at other places is still something, but not so much so as it was.

5068. Do you get meal there?-Yes, frequently; and frequently at other places.

5069. I suppose you get it there, or at other places, according to the state of your account at the time?-Yes; or rather according to my interest. Mr. Grierson has never refused to give me anything reasonable that I asked him. He has been very generous in that way all along.

5070. Have you any boys on the beach?-I have one boy who has been engaged this year for the first time for Mr. Grierson.

5071. Had you any desire to have him engaged elsewhere?-I would not have minded much if he had never gone to the beach at all; it is not a very good berth for a boy. In the previous year they asked me if I would allow him to go to the beach, and I said I would rather not, as I required his services myself; but this season they asked me for him again. Perhaps they would not have taken him against my will, but Mr Grierson might have thought I was rather obstinate if I refused again, and so I let him go. I did not like to refuse when Mr. Grierson asked me.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, LAURENCE LESLIE, examined.

5072. You are a fisherman, and a tenant on Mr. Grierson's land at Hillwill?-I am only a fisherman, but I pay a little rent along with my father.

5073. Are you any relation of the witness Laurence Leslie who was previously examined?-No.

5074. You have heard the evidence of the previous witnesses from Quendale?-Yes.

5075. Is it generally correct?-I think it is.

5076. Is there anything you could add to it?-I don't think so.

5077. Although you are not a tenant, do you consider yourself bound to fish to Mr. Grierson?-Yes, I am bound to do so.

5078. You could be free from that obligation, however, by leaving the ground?-Yes.

5079. Do you run an account in your own name at Mr. Grierson's shop?-No. I get a little from the shop sometimes, but I buy what I want where I think most convenient.

5080. Do you get payment in money from Mr. Grierson?-Yes.

5081. Can you get all your payment in money from him if you like?-Yes.

[Page 126]

5082. Do you get that money in the course of the year, or at the end of the season?-Just when we settle once a year.

5083. You don't get advances in the course of the year?-No; I don't seek any before the end of the year.

5084. Then you have always cash in hand?-Yes.

5085. You are a little ahead of the world?-Yes.

5086. Have you any beach boys in your family?-No; but I was a beach boy myself about fifteen years ago.

5087. That was before there was any obligation on the Quendale people to fish for their landlord?-Yes.

5088. At that time how was the arrangement made with beach boys?-I wrought for five months, and I got 10s.

5089. Was that paid to you in goods or in money at the settlement?-I got it in money at the settlement.

5090. Was that the usual way of settling at that time?-Yes.

5091. Is it the usual way still that a beach boy gets payment of his wages in money?-I believe so.

5092. Does he not run an account at the store?-I don't know anything about that myself.