Chapter V: Excerpt From Report of Mr. Peterkin, General Inspector of Board (4)

992. How did any of the people happen have much tea by them?- They were working among the fish for Messrs. Hay, and they took the tea out of their store.

993. Why did they take it? Did they not want it?-They sometimes required a few pennies. The merchants at that time would give nothing but truck, and the people took the tea, and sold it to their neighbours in order to get a few pence.

994. How do you know that was forbidden? Was there any order issued in writing, or otherwise, stating that people should not sell tea to their neighbours?-It was ordered by word of mouth, and it was also stated by the obligation which we had to sign in Messrs. Hay's office.

995. Did you sign that document?-Yes.

996. So that, you are now under a written obligation not to sell tea?-Yes; a written obligation.

997. Have you heard anything of late years about that prohibition against selling tea?-No.

998. Is it common for a neighbour who has got more tea than he wants, to sell it to another?-No they don't do it now.

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999. Why?-I don't know, except just that they are afraid.

1000. Then, if you want tea or any other goods, must go direct to the store at Scalloway for them?-Yes, if we have not got money. If we had money, then we could go to any store we like, and buy what we want.

1001. Have the Burra people any complaints to make with regard to oysters?-I don't deal in them.

1002. You were engaged in the herring fishery. Was there any special complaint made in the memorial, or have you any special complaint to make just now, as to that fishery?-The herring fishery is carried on under the same restrictions as the ling,

1003. You are bound to hand over the fish to Messrs. Hay, and they are entered into the account the same as the others?-Yes.

1004. When you prepared that petition some years ago, did you land your herring on the island, or were they handed in to some vessel?-There were two or three years about that time when a vessel came to Hamnavoe, and we measured them on board of her. When she was full, we had to measure them on shore.

1005. Who sent that vessel?-It was a man who came with a vessel from Hamburg for herrings, and he bought them from Messrs. Hay.

1006. Did the man pay you for the fish?-No; we had nothing to do with him, so far as the paying was concerned.

1007. Was it one of the grievances set forth in the petition, that you were paid in goods for these herrings, while the Wick fishermen got a larger price in cash?-I don't remember about that.

1008. You say you signed the obligation about eight years ago. Have you ever endeavoured or wished to break through it and to obtain your liberty?-No.

1009. You have never attempted that?-No.

1010. Does that obligation bind your family as well as yourself?- Yes, if they like to do it.

1011. But in the obligation itself did you become bound that your sons as well as yourself should fish for Messrs. Hay?-Yes.

1012. Have had to pay liberty money for any of your sons?-Yes; I had to pay it for one of my sons-Robert Smith. He was two years away. One year he was with Mr. Harrison, and the year following he was with Mr. Garriock, and I paid liberty money in these years to Messrs. Hay on his account.

1013. How long ago was that?-I think it was three years ago.

1014. Then the obligation to fish applied to the Faroe fishing as well as to the home fishing?-Yes; to the whole fishings.

1015. Have you ever had to pay liberty money for your sons leaving the home fishing and going to some other employment?- No; they never followed the home fishing. They would not go to it.

1016. Then, if a man does not choose to go to the home fishing at all, he is free?-Yes.

1017. But if a man does go to the home fishing he is to fish for the landlord?-Yes, if he be a tenant.

1018. But he need not fish unless he likes?-No; it is only if he does fish, and if he is a person holding land, that he must fish for Messrs. Hay.

1019. Or if he is the son of a landholder, and living in his father's house?-Yes.

1020. I believe the liberty money amounts to 20s.?-Yes.

1021. When is it paid?-When we settle.

1022. Is it deducted from the amount due?-Yes.

1023. Do you know of any cases where that liberty money has been paid back by Messrs, Hay?-Yes.

1024. Was it paid back to you?-Yes; it was paid back to me for my son.

1025. Then the money you mentioned just now as having been paid by you for your son was paid back to you?-Yes; it was paid back to me afterwards.

1026. How long afterwards?-I think about a year and a half.

1027. Did you ask for it to be paid back?-Yes; I asked it over and over again before I got it. I think I asked for it two or three times, if I remember right.

1028. Did they give it back to you as a favour?-Yes.

1029. Was the amount of liberty money fixed in the obligation which you signed?-Yes.

1030. Did you get a copy of that obligation?-No.

1031. Have you been spoken to about that obligation since you signed it, and told that it was in force?-Never, except when they charged liberty money. I objected to pay it; and their answer was, that I had signed an obligation to pay it, and therefore that I was obliged to do so.

1032. Do you know any one else who has paid liberty money within the last year or two?-Yes; Andrew Laurenson paid it for his brother.

1033. Is Laurenson here?-No.

1034. Why did he have to pay it for his brother?-Because I think the father was not able, and Andrew had just to pay it.

1035. Were both the Laurensons living with their father?-No, Andrew was not living with him; he was married, and had gone away. But Robert was living with his father; and Andrew paid the money for the brother, because his father could not.

1036. Has there been any other case?-Yes; Peter Henry paid liberty money for himself about three years ago.

1037. Was Laurenson's money paid back?-Yes.

1038. After he had asked it?-I don't know if he asked it, but I know that it was paid back.

1039. Was Henry's paid back?-I don't know.

1040. Did these cases all occur about the same year?-Yes, all about the same time.

1041. Is it the case that at time you had several bad fishing seasons?-Yes.

1042. And is it the case that at that time Messrs. Hay were largely in advance to the fishermen in Burra?-Yes; for some years they were largely in advance.

1043. Did they want to get the young men to go to the Faroe fishing in order to get their parents out of debt: did they assign that as a reason for charging liberty money?-Yes, sometimes they did.

1044. Did they tell you, or did you understand, that these fines were required in order to induce the young men to go to the Faroe fishing, and to pay off the debt due by their parents?-Yes, I understood that.

1045. Were you told that by Messrs. Hay at the time?-Yes.

1046. Are these the only cases in which such fines have been exacted, within your knowledge?-Yes.

1047. Have all the landholders since that time fished for Messrs. Hay, to your knowledge?-Yes; they have all fished for them at the home fishing.

1048. And at the Faroe fishing too?-There are very few of the landholders who go to the Faroe fishing.

1049. Are there many men in Burra who go to the Faroe fishing?- Yes, a considerable number.

1050. But these are the younger men?-Yes; generally they are.

1051. And they are not bound in any way?-No, are not now.

1052. Do they generally ship with the Messrs. Hay?-Some of them do, and some do not. It is not general thing with them to do so.

1053. They can do as they like?-Yes.

1054. Can your sons do as they like in that matter, and ship with any person they please?-Yes.

1055. Do they go to the Faroe fishing?-Yes.

1056. And you are not asked to pay liberty money for them now?-No.

1057. Is that because Messrs. Hay have ceased to require payment of liberty money?-Yes; they thought the thing was not legal, and they have given it up.

1058. Are your sons living in your house still?-One of them is, but the other one is married, and is away from me.

1059. And the one who is living with you goes to the Faroe fishing?-Yes.

1060. Have you ever cured fish for yourself?-No.

1061. Then you don't know from your own experience, [Page 22] whether you would have a larger profit if you did cure them on your own account?-No; not from my own experience.

1062. Except when you signed the document you have mentioned, was there any occasion on which you were told by any of the firm of Hay & Co. that you were bound to fish for them only?-I don't remember any other time.

Lerwick, January 2, 1872, THOMAS CHRISTIE, examined.

1063. You are a fisherman in Burra, and a tenant under Messrs. Hay?-Yes.

1064. You have been present during the examination of the two preceding witnesses?-Yes.

1065. Do you concur with them as to the most of the facts which they have stated?-Yes.

1066. Did you sign the obligation which has been spoken to?-I signed it once, about eight years ago.

1067. Did you do so willingly, or did you refuse first?-I did so willingly.

1068. Had you not received warning to leave your ground first?- No, I don't think it.

1069. Were you ever told that you would have to leave your ground if you did not sign it?-Yes; I suppose I was.

1070. Have you complied ever since with that obligation to fish for Hay & Co.?-Yes.

1071. You did not try to break it in any way?-No.

1072. Have you ever had to pay liberty money for yourself or any of your children?-No.

1073. Have you cured fish for yourself?-No.

1074. Is it your opinion, as well as that of the other witnesses, that you would make a larger profit if you cured your own fish?-I think we would.

1075. Can you give me any reason for supposing that?-No; no particular reason, because I never cured them.

1076. But you know that is the general belief?-Yes.

1077. Have you any knitters in your family?-Yes.

1078. The letter you have signed says that they are invariably paid in goods, both for the goods they sell, and also for their wages when engaged to knit for the hosiery dealers: is that so?-Yes.

1079. Have you ever sold any articles for your daughters?-Yes.

1080. Do you sometimes take the goods they knit the shops and sell them for them?-Yes.

1081. Where have you taken them to?-To Linklater.

1082. Do you keep an account with him?-No.

1083. You just take the article in and sell it?-Yes, and get what they want for it.

1084. Do your daughters knit with their own wool?-No, they knit with wool supplied by Mr. Linklater.

1085. Is it through you that the dealing generally takes place?- No; not through me.

1086. Your daughters generally manage it themselves?-Yes.

1087. But you have brought in articles which they have knitted?- Yes; on one or two occasions.

1088. On these occasions what took place?-I was just ordered to get some things from the shop, and I got them.

1089. Did you ever ask for money?-No, they never expected to get money, they never asked for it.

1090. You were told the articles that you were to bring home, and the value that was to be put upon the shawls?-Yes.

1091. Did you not leave the fixing of the price to the merchant?- He knew the price himself. It was marked down in the book, what I brought in for them was added to the account.

1092. Do your daughters have a book?-No; but the merchant enters these things in his own book.

1093. Then they have an account with Mr. Linklater-which is kept in his book?-Yes.

1094. What is the name of your daughter?-Elizabeth Christie.

1095. Is the account in Mr. Linklater's book kept in her name?- Yes.

1096. You say that you buy your goods until the end of the year from your landlord's shop: is it from the shop at Scalloway or in Lerwick that you generally buy?-I buy from both places.

1097. Is there an account in your name in both shops?-Yes; I can go to any place I like.

1098. And you get the same class of goods at both?-I don't think there is much difference.

1099. Do you get every kind of goods at both shops?-Yes.

Lerwick, January 2, 1872, CHARLES SINCLAIR, examined.

1100. You are a fisherman in Burra?-Yes.

1101. Do you hold any land there?-No, I have only a room, and pay rent for it, in an old mansion-house on the island.

1102. To whom do you pay rent?-To Messrs. Hay.

1103. How do you make your living?-By fishing, and sometimes by going as master of a small coasting vessel.

1104. Does that vessel belong to you?-No; I sometimes get employment from the owners in Lerwick,-from Mr. Leask, or Messrs. Hay, or others.

1105. You have not a permanent employment as master?-No, but I am competent for taking charge of a vessel at times.

1106. Is that a vessel employed in the fishing trade?-Yes, and sometimes in the coasting trade, taking cured fish to any port in England or Scotland.

1107. You have been present during the examination of the previous witnesses during the day?-Yes.

1108. Do you concur generally in what they have stated?-So far as I can remember it, I do.

1109. Is there anything additional you want to say?-Yes. Our wishes are to have our liberty to fish for whoever we please, and to make the best we can of our fish.

1110. But you are not bound in any way?-I am bound to fish for Messrs. Hay in the long-line and herring fishing in the island.

1111. Did you sign any obligation-to fish for Messrs. Hay only?- No.

1112. Then in what way are you bound?-By our father signing an obligation.

1113. Are you the son of a Burra man?-Yes.

1114. Did your father sign the obligation eight years ago?-Yes.

1115. What reason have you to suppose that binds you to fish?- My father told me when he came home, that neither he nor his sons were to be allowed to fish to any other men than Messrs. Hay.

1116. Is it eight years since he told you that-Yes.

1117. Is your father alive?-Yes, he is here. His name is John Sinclair.

1118. Have you attempted or wished to fish for any other than Messrs. Hay?-Yes; in the Faroe fishing, but nowhere else.

1119. Was there any objection taken to your doing so?-No; because at the time when I broke off from Messrs. Hay they could not suit me with a vessel. I was competent to take charge of a vessel, and they had none to give me, and for that reason they let me off.

1120. Do you go in for the home fishing?-Sometimes.

1121. Have you fished for any other than Messrs. Hay in that fishing?-No, not in the long-line fishing.

1122. Have you proposed to do so?-No.

1123. Then you have never been interfered with in any way yourself?-No, not further than that. Occasionally I have had to fish a little for them when I was not engaged at anything else.

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1124. How had you to fish to them?-To support myself.

1125. But if you had chosen, you might have engaged with any other merchant than Messrs. Hay?-No, not for the home fishing.

1126. Why do you say that?-Because we were made to understand that we would not be allowed to do so.

1127. You say that your only reason for understanding that, was what your father had told you. What would have been the result to you if you had done it?-The result would have been, that my father would have been turned out on my account.

1128. Is that what you were afraid of?-Yes.

1129. And is that the reason why you never tried to get engaged with any other merchant?-Yes.

1130. Had you ever to pay liberty money?-No.

1131. Had your father ever to pay liberty money for you or any of his sons?-I believe he had to pay for one who died.

1132. Do you know that yourself?-I am confident of it, from having heard about it.

1133. Was that when you were young?-Yes.

1134. But that was a good many years ago?-Yes. I cannot remember the time.

1135. Is that all you wish to say?-I remember in my early years, when I was a young fellow, and commenced to fish along with my father, we went chiefly to the herring fishing, and we had to catch herring for Messrs. Hay at a very low price. We had a certain allowance of meal, which I suppose would amount to about twenty-four pounds for seven or eight days; and it was hardly fit to sustain a family of about eight people. My father had to find boats and nets with which to proceed to the fishing, and that put him into debt; and about four years ago I and my brothers had to come good for that debt.

1136. Was that an old debt which your father had contracted?-It was a debt accumulated chiefly in the herring fishing.

1137. When was it begun to be incurred?-About fifteen or sixteen years ago.

1138. Had the debt increased, or did it merely stand over?-It was not regular; it sometimes rose and sometimes fell.

1139. But your father was constantly in debt up to four years ago?-Yes, so far as I can remember.

1140. Was that debt made out by the annual accountings which we have heard about to-day? Was it a debt in the books of Messrs. Hay for provisions supplied at the store?-Yes, and for fishing materials.

1141. Was it for a boat also?-It was chiefly for a new boat and nets. He purchased a new boat, which put him further down than ever.

1142. Was it purchased about fifteen or twenty years ago?-No; it is perhaps ten or twelve years ago.

1143. And you say that about four years ago this debt became so large that you and your brother had to become bound for it?-Yes.

1144. How did that happen?-Because they wrote out, or pretended to write out, what might be called a travelling-ticket, or a warning to remove off the land.

1145. At what term?-Was it at Martinmas?-As far as I recollect, it was.

1146. Some people have taken special objection to the short Martinmas warning. Do you concur in that objection?-Yes. It is only forty days in some cases.

1147. And your father got that warning?-Yes.

1148. How much was he in debt at that time?-Perhaps from £9 to £12. I and my brother Robert had to pay £6, and I believe that was the half of it.

1149. Did you sign any document obliging you pay that money?- No.

1150. Then how did you become bound?-On account of my father being warned out.

1151. But in what way did you become bound? Did you merely promise by word of mouth that you would pay it?-Yes; we had to become good for it.

1152. But you did not sign any agreement?-No; we handed over the money-the sum of £6.

1153. Was that money which you had earned?-Yes.

1154. Was it due to you in your account with Messrs. Hay?-No; I had it in my pocket. I had saved it in other employments.

1155. Then you had no difficulty in getting money for your wages when you wanted it? You were not obliged to take your wages in goods?-No, not our wages; but we have to take the proceeds of our fishing in that way, to a certain extent. They will give us part of that in goods.

1156. Is that the proceeds of the Faroe fishing?-No; of the home fishing.

1157. In the Faroe fishing, what arrangement do you make about the payment of your share?-We can get it all in money if we choose to have it.

1158. You have been at the Faroe fishing?-Yes.

1159. There is no difficulty in that fishing in getting cash at the end of the season?-No; not at the settling times, which take place once a year.

1160. How do you do about your supplies for the Faroe fishing?- We generally apply for them to the merchant we fish for.

1161. And you get a supply from him of provisions, clothing, fishing material, and everything you require?-Yes.

1162. That is marked down against you in the book, and deducted from the price of your fish at the end of the season?-Yes.

1163. Is the price for these fish fixed only at settling time?-Yes.

1164. Who does the boat belong to in which you go to the Faroe fishing?-I have been at that fishing for different owners.

1165. Does the boat always belong to the merchant, or does it sometimes belong to the men themselves?-No; it always belongs to the merchant.

1166. But the whole material required for that fishing, except the boat, belongs to the men?-Yes; and it is purchased by them from the shipowner. We have to find our hooks and lines and provisions. That is all we have to find, the owner finds the rest.

1167. Are you a married man?-Yes, I have a wife and two children.

1168. How are your family supported during your absence at the Faroe fishing? Where do they get their supplies?-They can get them in the owner's store if they require them, but, for myself, I do not require to go there. I can get them at any place I please.

1169. Is it a common thing for the other men who go to the Faroe fishing, to buy their goods at the owners store?-When they don't have money to buy them at other places, they go there for them.

1170. But is that a common thing?-I cannot say exactly. I suppose it is not uncommon.

1171. Does it often happen that a man employed in the Faroe fishing finds an account against him in the owner's store for provisions at settling time as large as the amount which he has to receive for his fishing?-I am not acquainted with that myself.

1172. When you are away at the Faroe fishing, and your family have occasion for money, is there any difficulty in getting it from the parties who employ you?-Not if they know we have money to get. If we have a balance in our favour, they are not against giving it.

1173. How long are you generally absent at that fishing?- Sometimes six months, sometimes seven, and sometimes as low as three months.

1174. Suppose you had been away from home for two or three months, there would certainly be two or three months take of fish, if it was a middling season, for which money would be due to you?-Yes.

1175. Would your wife at home be able to get an advance of money from the merchant in that case, if she required it for the support of the family?-Yes.

1176. There is no difficulty made about that?-No.

1177. Is it a common thing in Shetland for a man's wife to get such advances of money during his absence-Yes, they would get a small sum of money, but the merchant would prefer them to take goods.

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1178. If she comes for the money is she ever told to take it in goods; or is there any understanding that she is to take it in goods?-I cannot answer that, because I am not acquainted with what goes on while I am away. I can only speak to what has come within my own experience.

Lerwick, January 2, 1872, GILBERT GOODLAD, examined.

1179. You are a fisherman in Burra, and you hold land there under Messrs. Hay?-Yes.

1180. You have been present during the examination of the previous witnesses?-Yes.

1181. Do you agree with most of what Williamson and Smith have said?-Yes.

1182. Is it all correct?-Yes; all correct.

1183. You generally go to the Faroe fishing?-I do.

1184. How long may you be absent at that fishing?-It just depends upon the season: sometimes we may be away for perhaps four months. We are generally home once in the middle of the time. We are sometimes we may be away longer than four months, sometimes not so long ago.

1185. What merchants have you generally engaged with?-I have engaged with a great many merchants in Shetland.

1186. There has been no objection made to your going with any merchant you liked?-No.

1187. Messrs. Hay have not objected to that?-No. They might not have been requiring me when I was going, and therefore I could go where I liked.

1188. When you go there, how do you arrange for your family to be supplied during your absence?-The merchant supplies them during my absence.

1189. What merchant?-Whatever owner I am out for.

1190. When your wife wants supplies, does she go to his shop for them?-Yes.

1191. If she wants money, does she ask it from him too?-She may, but sometimes she has been refused it. They are not willing to give money. If they think we are doing well at the fishing, they will advance her a little money; but if they think we are not succeeding well, they will not give it, because they would think then that we might come to be in their debt.

1192. Is there any communication with the vessels when they are at the fishing?-Yes. Some of the vessels may go home and come back again, or an accident may occur on board of one of them, and she may go home and give an account of how the fishing is going on. They may also send letters from Faroe, by Denmark, to Shetland; so that there are several ways of communicating from there to here.

1193. Who are some of the parties with whom you have shipped for the Faroe fishing?-I have been out for Mr. Garriock in Reawick, Mr. Garriock in Lerwick, Mr. Leask, and Messrs. Hay.

1194. But, whoever you go out for, your wife generally goes to their shop for her supplies?-She is obliged to go there, if we have no other means to live on.

1195. Can you tell me one occasion on which she went and was refused money, or on which you have asked them to give her money and it has been refused?-I am not quite sure that there has been any occasion of that kind, because we know that if we are not fishing well, we need not ask for money.

1196. Have you been told that by any of the shopkeepers?-I have seen it, and experienced it.

1197. When, and how?-Even during the last season with the Faroe fishing, there were some of the merchants who would not make an advance to the people when they required it.

1198. Did they require to get an advance of money?-They might try to live on through the season without money, and they might have done it if they could only have got some meal and some bread to live upon.

1199. Do you mean that the people at the fishing had to do so?- No; the people whom they left at home got so little that they could hardly subsist upon it, and they had to try some other means in order to enable them to live.

1200. What other means had they?-They might have a cow or two, and make butter, and sell the milk, and buy a little meal with that.

1201. Do any of the members of your family knit?-I have two daughters who knit

1202. Do they get money for that knitting?-Not one cent.

1203. Have you sold the hosiery work for them?-I never did. They always manage these matters for themselves.

1204. Have you ever represented their case to the merchants, and said that they ought to pay them in cash?-No. It is no use saying anything of the kind, because the merchants would not give them money. There is one thing I should like to say with regard to the Faroe fishing. We come into the town of Lerwick, or any other port in Shetland where the vessels happen be fitting out, and commence to fit the vessels so as to have them ready for sea. We have to go on board, and have only an allowance of one pound of bread a day for every day we are on board the vessel. We have nothing else to live on during the time we are fitting out the vessels, and if we are absent on any account whatever during the time the vessels are being fitted out they charge 2s., 6d. per day for that, in order to put a man in our place.

1205. Is not that merely a part of your bargain with the merchants for whom you engage to fish?-It is part of the bargain, but it is a very bad part.

1206. If you did not choose to make a bargain of that kind, you would not be bound to carry it out?-That is true; but the poor people here cannot strike as they do in England: because they are so poor, the merchants can just do as they please with them.

1207. Did you sign the obligation eight years ago which has been spoken to by the previous witnesses?-No.

1208. Do you go in for the home fishing at all?-Yes; I am a fisherman in the Burra Isles.

1209. Do you consider yourself bound to fish only for Messrs. Hay in the home fishing?-I do.

1210. Have you ever been told so by Messrs. Hay?-Yes, I have been told that; and there was a document made out, but I did not sign it. I have got no notice about the matter since then, because we knew that we had to carry on the fishing in the same way.

1211. Have you ever paid liberty money?-No, I never had anybody to pay it for, and I never paid for myself.

1212. Have you ever asked to have the price of your fish fixed at the beginning of the season?-No.

1213. Is there not a feeling among the men, that that would be a better mode of dealing than the present?-We durst not go in for anything of the kind.

1214. Would it not be a better plan in the Faroe fishing?-We could not do anything of the kind there, because the merchants don't know what the price of the fish will be until they can be sold. The market may rise.

1215. You take your chance of the markets there-Yes; whatever chance the merchant gets, we get too. We run shares with the merchants in that fishing.

1216. You are not paid at so much per cwt.?-No; we have shares. One half of the fish that are brought in by the vessel belongs to the crew, and the other half belongs to the owners.

1217. Then you are not serving for wages there at all?-No; they give us wages if we have to go to Iceland in the fall of the year but they give no wages for the summer fishing at Faroe. It is just a partnership that is made up for the fish that are caught.

1218. Is there anything further you wish to say?-No; I think everything which we have to say has been pretty well said by the other men.

1219. Are all the thirteen men here who signed the letter to me about Burra?-Yes.

1220. Have any of them anything further to say?-[No answer.]

<Adjourned>.

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Lerwick: Wednesday, January 3, 1872. <Present>-Mr Guthrie.

JOHN LEASK, examined.

1221. You are a fisherman at Channerwick, parish of Sandwick?- I am.

1222. You came here yesterday for the purpose making some statement: what was it about?-I wanted to make some statement about how I have been treated three years back, particularly.

1223. Are you a tenant of land?-Yes.

1224. Are you a yearly tenant?-Yes.

1225. Under whom?-Under Mr. Robert Bruce of Simbister.

1226. Do you pay your rent to him?-We pay our rent to Mr. William Irvine, the factor.

1227. Is that Mr. Irvine of Hay & Co.?-Yes.

1228. What quantity of land do you hold?-It is rather more than what are called two merks and about a third.

1229. How much is that in acres?-I don't know. It is a Danish measurement.

1230. How much rent do you pay for that?-£4, 2s. 10d.

1231. Do you also pay taxes and poor-rates in addition?-No; that is included in the sum I have mentioned.

1232. What did you come to complain about?-About the way we were dealt with when we were under tack for seventeen years to Mr. Robert Mouat. He got bankrupt in the latter end.

1233. How long is it since he became bankrupt?-It was only last year, and he went away then.

1234. Before that, had he a tack of the whole lands of Mr. Bruce in that part of the country?-He had Levenwick, Channerwick and Coningsburgh in tack.

1235. Had you to pay your rent to him?-Yes.

1236. He was what is called a middle-man in Shetland?-Yes; a middle-man or tacksmaster. The Shetland name for it is tacksmaster.

1237. You were under tack to him, and you paid the same rent to him that you have mentioned just now?-Yes, I suppose so, but I don't remember what rent I paid to him, for I never got my rent from him.

1238. How do you mean?-Because he was the tacksman, and he took what rent he liked.

1239. Do you mean to say that you did not pay £4, 2s. 10d. to him the same as you are doing now?-I paid him more.

1240. When was your rent fixed at £4, 2s. 10d.?-This year.

1241. What was your rent before?-I cannot tell what it was under Mouat, for I never heard what it was. He never told me what my rent was; it was just what he liked to take. But after Mouat left, Mr. Bruce gave us our liberty. We have had our liberty for the past year, and we go now and pay our rent to the factor, and he has told us what our rent is.

1242. Did you fish for Mouat when he was there?-I was bound by the proprietor to do so.

1243. Had you signed any agreement to do that?-I was never called upon to sign any agreement, but Mouat told me that his agreement with the proprietor was that I was bound to fish for him; and he told me that if I did not fish for him, he had power to warn me out of the place where I lived.

1244. When did he tell you that?-He told me that at the commencement of the tack, seventeen years ago.

1245. Had you been in the same ground before that time?-Yes.

1246. Who did you hold from at that time?-The tacksman before Mouat was Mr. Spence, Lerwick. He collected the rents for Mr. Bruce.

1247. Was he the tacksman or only a factor?-He was a lawyer or tacksman, taking up the money for Mr. Bruce.

1248. Were you bound then to fish for any particular individual?- We were always bound.

1249. After Mouat told you that you must fish for him, did you ever fish for any one else during the whole of these seventeen years?-No.

1250. Why did you not sell your fish to any one else?-For fear of being warned off the property where was living; and I had nowhere else to go to, because I was a poor man.

1251. Is it the home fishing you are now speaking of?-Yes, the home or ling fishing; but I have been in the whale fishery, and in the straits fishery, and the Faroe fishery, as well as in the home fishery.

1252. But you were not at these other fishings for Mouat?-No; I was at home when I fished for him.

1253. Could you engage with any one you pleased for the whale fishing or the Faroe fishing?-Yes.

1254. You have no complaint to make about that-No; I could go to any one I liked, only I was bound under tack to Mouat.

1255. When you fished for Mouat, did you deliver your fish to his people?-Yes.

1256. Where?-At Levenwick.

1257. Did you deliver them green or dry?-Green.

1258. How were you paid for them?-We were just paid as he liked to pay us. He gave us just what he chose.

1259. When were you paid for them?-Sometimes in March, sometimes about the New Year, or just when he chose to make arrangements for paying us.

1260. Did he pay you then for all the fish of the previous season?-Yes.

1261. At what time in the season did you begin to fish?-We began in the spring-generally in the month of May.

1262. And all the fish which you caught from May down to next winter were paid for in January or February or March?-Yes; or at any time, just as he chose to make arrangements for paying.

1263. Did you make a bargain about the price at the beginning of the season?-No.

1264. Did you make your bargain when you delivered your fish to him?-No.

1265. When did you fix the price which you were to get?-He fixed the price when he paid us.

1266. Did you ever object to the price which he fixed?-Many a time.

1267. You made that objection at settling day?-Yes.

1268. What did he when you asked for a larger price?-He told us that we should have no more, and that we were in duty bound to fish for him.

1269. Had Mouat a shop?-Yes; his shop was at the Moul of Channerwick, close to my house.

1270. Are there many fishermen living close by there?-There are a good many, and almost all men are fishermen.

1271. Do they live near that shop?-Yes.

1272. How many houses may be there, or about that neighbourhood?-I think there are about nineteen of them close together.

1273. Are there many more houses at a little distance?-There are no more at that particular place, but in the town of Levenwick, about a mile to the south of the Moul, there are more.

1274. Is there another shop there?-No.

1275. Do the Levenwick people come to the Channerwick shop?- Yes.

1276. What did you get in Mouat's shop?-We got the goods he pleased to give us.

1277. Did you get the goods you wanted?-No; we did not get the goods we wanted. We could just get the goods he had.

1278. What did you get?-We sometimes got a [Page 26] little tea and cotton and anything we asked for that was there. If it was there for us to get it was very well; but if it was not there, we had to walk home without, and we could get no money to buy it with.

1279. How could you get no money?-Because he would not give it to us on any consideration at all.

1280. Did you often ask for?-Every year and every time.

1281. What do you mean by every time?-Every time we came to that store when we thought his goods were not a bargain for us to take we asked for some money to go somewhere else and get a better bargain; but of course we were denied it. We could get none.

1282. Did you never get an advance of money from the time the fishing began, until settling time?-No.

1283. Did you ever get any money from Mouat during the whole seventeen years you fished for him?-No.

1284. Did you not get money if there was, a balance over at settling time?-No.

1285. Do you swear that?-Yes, I do.

1286. Supposing that at the time of settling there was a balance due to you after paying your account at the shop and your rent did you not get, that in money?-No. I had to take it in goods or else go without.

1287. Were you told that you must take it in goods?-Yes; I could get no money.

1288. Did you generally take goods there and then or did you get them afterwards just as you wanted them?-Sometimes I got them as I wanted them and at other times I might take a little goods expecting that I would perhaps get a shilling of money along with them as I was in necessity for it; but I could not get any.

1289. Did you expect that you might get a shilling for the goods?-As I had a balance due I expected that I might get a shilling in money; and I did not take all the goods at one time but I took a little now when I required them, and a little the next time; and always when I came to the store I asked if I could not get a shilling in money because goods could not serve me every time.

1290. Did you sell the goods which you got from the shop in order to raise a little money?-Sometimes.

1291. Did you sell them to your neighbours?-I could not sell them to my neighbours, because they were in the same state as I was myself.

1292. Where did you sell them?-Sometimes we would take a little and fall in with a boy or a laddie, who would buy a bit of cloth from us, or the like of that, at a reduced price and thus help us to get a few shillings.

1293. To what boys or lads did you sell these goods?-Just to any lad that would buy them. Perhaps my own lad would be going elsewhere, such as to the sea, where he would be paid by a fee; and sometimes I would get a bit of goods and give it to my boy, and he would pay me for it with a few shillings out of his fee and that would serve my ends for the time.

1294. Had you anything to sell off your farm?-Yes.

1295. You sold a beast now and then?-Yes; but Mouat took the whole of them.

1296. Did he buy your beasts too?-Yes.

1297. Did you not have liberty to sell them to other people?-No, we had no liberty at all; because he said we were under the same obligation with regard to beasts and eggs and all the produce of our farms as we were under with regard to the fish, and therefore, if he got the one, he compelled us to give him the other too.

1298. When did he tell you that about the beasts and the eggs?- He told us about it in the same year that he took the tack.

1299. Did you ever try to sell them to another?-Yes, I tried that sometimes.

1300. To whom did you try to sell them?-To any one who came round asking for such things; but I knew that if I did such a thing, and Mouat came to know about it, I must be prepared to take to my heels and fly.

1301. Did you ever actually sell any of the produce of your farm to another than Mouat?-I never sold any, except one little horse; and I sold it when I was in starvation for meal. That was towards the end of Mouat's tack.

1302. How long ago was it?-I think it is two years past.

1303. Who did you sell it to?-I sold it to a man in the neighbourhood of Quarff.

1304. What was his name?-Andrew Jamieson, he lives at Quarff now.

1305. What did you get for it?-I got £2; it was a small beast

1306. Did Mouat know that you had sold that beast to Jamieson?-Yes, and as soon as he heard about it he sent for me, and told me what he was determined to do, and that I might prepare myself for going.

1307. How long was that before he failed?-I think I only paid one year after that.

1308. Do you mean that there was only one settlement with him after that?-Yes.

1309. When you were making your settlements, I suppose it was the previous Whitsunday and Martinmas rents that you settled for at each?-Yes.

1310. How long would it be before the settlement that you sold the horse?-I sold it after the settlement for the year. Mouat knew that I had a pony to sell and he wanted me to give it to him. I said that I would give him the pony as he told me I was bound to do it but he must bring me some meal, because it was a very bad season, and I could not sow down my ground. He would not bring me any meal and therefore I resolved that, whatever might happen to me whether I should be put out or not, I would sell my animal and procure a living for my house; and I did so.

1311. At what time of the year did you sell it?-In March.

1312. That would be shortly after the settlement?-Yes.

1313. How long was it after that when Mouat told you that you must leave?-Just about eight days-as soon as he heard it.

1314. But he did not turn you off?-No.

1315. Could he not have turned you off at the following Whitsunday term?-Yes; he could have turned me off then.

1316. But he did not do it?-No; because I went to the proprietor, Mr. Bruce, and told him what I had done, and what Mouat was going to do to me. I don't know what took place between Mr. Bruce and Mouat about that, but I did not get my warning?

1317. What did Mr. Bruce say to you about it when you saw him?-He said very little. I went to him, and also to the factor, Mr. Irvine, and told him about it. I got no satisfaction at the time, and therefore I expected I would be turned off; but in the end I was not put off the ground.

1318. That would be in the spring of 1870?-Yes.

1319. Have you paid any rent to Mr. Irvine or to Mr Bruce this year?-Yes; I paid my rent about six weeks ago.

1320. To whom do you deliver your fish now?-To any one I choose.

1321. Who did you fish for last season?-For Mr. Robertson.

1322. Where do you get your goods now?-I can get them from Mr. Robertson. He bought Mouat's store in Channerwick.

1323. Do you still get your goods there?-Yes.

1324. Are you bound to get them there?-We are not bound particularly, because if we ask Mr. Robertson for a few shillings of money during the time we are fishing for him, we will get them.

1325. Have you got money from him since he took that store?- Yes; I got my rent from him this year.

1326. You mean, that you got money from him to pay your rent?- Yes.

1327. Can you mention the name of any person who [Page 27] was turned away for selling his fish or the produce of his farm to another merchant than during the seventeen years he held the tack?-I cannot mention any one particularly, except an old man who was turned off his farm; but that was a good while ago. His name was Henry Sinclair, in Levenwick. That occurred about the beginning of Mouat's tack.

1328. What was he turned out for?-For an 'outfall' about some fishing.

1329. What had he done with his fish?-It was his son that the thing occurred with.

1330. What had his son done?-His son got into some sort of dispute with Mouat about fishing, I can not tell what the cause of it was exactly; but Mouat gave him warning, and sent him off the property that he was staying on. Sinclair took a little bit of scattald outside of the premises, and built a house on it, and he is living there in a very mean condition.

1331. Did the other people in the neighbourhood take that case as a warning?-Yes.

1332. It frightened them, did it?-Yes; Shetland people are of that nature, to be frightened by such things-very much to their hurt.

1333. Do you know of any other person who was turned off in the same way?-No, I don't remember of any other person being turned off; because Mouat had no occasion to turn them off. They did not transgress his law.

1334. Do you know of any other who was threatened to be turned off?-Every one of us was threatened, the next man was threatened, and we were all threatened; so that we were frightened.

1335. Do you know of any person who sold his fish or his beasts or eggs to another than Mouat?-Towards the end of his tack, in the very last fishing when I fished for him, my family and I were in a state of starvation for want of meal. I have seen me out at sea under him for two days and part of a third, on two pounds of meal; and I saw that I must make some effort for a living, Accordingly I went to another store close by and gave them some of the fish I had caught, and got some meal from them. If Mouat's tack had continued longer, I have no doubt I would have been punished for that; but as it was nearly broken, he did not have it in his power to do me any hurt.

1336. Did Mouat speak to you about that?-Yes. There came a letter from him to the people in the neighbourhood, because some of them did take their liberty and go away.

1337. Was that in the last year of his tack?-Yes.

1338. What kind of letters were these?-They were letters from Mouat telling them not to prepare their turf or anything to keep them in their farms, because they had their warning to go. I got a letter as well as the rest.

1339. Did it refer to the fish that you had sold to the other merchant?-Yes.

1340. Have you got that letter?-I don't know. I don't know what became of it. I think I burnt it; but there ought to be letters in the neighbourhood that came from Mouat at that time.

1341. You said you did not get all the goods you wanted at Mouat's shop. What were the goods you asked for and could not get?-I generally asked for little tea.

1342. Could you not get that?-Yes, I always got that, and I could get a bit of cotton or anything out of the store that I wanted.

1343. Did you get the tackle you wanted for your fishing from him?-Yes.

1344. And clothes for your family?-I could get clothes for my family if I asked for them. Sometimes I did get a little clothing from him.

1345. Was it principally meal and tea that you got from Mouat?- Yes; and if his meal had been grain, it would have been good enough; but as it was, it was not fit for human food.

1346. You mean that it was not of good quality?-It was not; and we paid at the dearest rate for it.

1347. How do you know that?-Because we heard it from the storeman who sold it to us. Mouat had a storeman in the shop; and when we got the meal from him, he told us what the price of it was.

1348. Had you a pass-book?-We sometimes had a pass-book, but it was not always taken there; and besides, the storeman was not very willing to be bothered with it.

1349. Did you ever ask the price of meal and tea in Lerwick?- Yes.

1350. Did you ever buy these articles in Lerwick when you happened to have some money?-Yes, sometimes when I had any money I did so; but it was very little money that ever I had, because where could we get it, when we could get no money at all for our fishing?

1351. Have you bought these articles in Lerwick within the last two or three years?-Yes.

1352. Did you find the Lerwick meal better and cheaper than what you got from Mouat?-Yes; the Lerwick meal was grain, but Mouat's meal was nothing but the refuse of the worst that was given to us poor fishing slaves.

1353. Then the complaint you have to make is only about what is past?-Yes; about how I was treated during the seventeen years I was under Mouat. I have nothing to say against Mr. Robert Bruce, or against Mr. Robertson either, with regard to our present condition.

1354. You are quite content with your way of dealing at present?-Yes, I have nothing to say against that, but I am frightened for the future.

1355. Have you a boat of your own?-No.