Chapter V: Excerpt From Report of Mr. Peterkin, General Inspector of Board (2)

350. Then-December 29, twenty veils at 1s, £1; March 30, two shawls at 3s. 6d, 7s.; August 19, nine veils at 1s., 9s.; same date, one shawl, 3s. 6d.-in all, £5, 10s. 51/2d. There is deducted £5, 5s. 2d., leaving a balance in your favour of. 5s. 31/2d.; and then the account begins again, and is continued down till December 26?- Yes.

351. Do you live with your father?-Yes.

352. Therefore you don't want much money for your own purposes?-We can never get any money. We would be very glad to get it if we could.

353. Have you asked money for your shawls instead of goods?- Yes.

354. What answer was made to your request?-That he never gave any money, and that he could not give it.

355. Was it not because you had this account, standing against you that he refused to give you any money?-No. The merchants don't give money to anybody, unless it be just to favourites.

356. At August 19 there was 5s. 31/2d. at your credit: did you not ask for that in money?-No; I did not ask for money then, but I had asked for it before.

357. I see that on August 19, when you were settling up, and when there was 5s. 31/2d. due to you, you took a hat and feathers, some velvet, and a jacket. You got a great deal more then than was due to you-Yes; because we had a number of veils knitting for the merchant at the time, and they all go into the account for the goods we get.

358. You say you did not ask for money at that time: did you not want it?-We always want it; but we never got it when we did ask for it; and it is no use always asking for it.

359. When did you ask for it last?-Some time in 1871.

360. I see there are no goods entered in your book as having been received by you from Mr. Linklater between January 1871 and October 1871: had you stopped working for him during that time?-I was in the south then.

361. But your sister was here?-Yes; but she was not knitting any. She was very sickly.

362. Is there anything else you want to say?-No.

363. Your sister Amelia is here to make the same statement that you have now made?-Yes.

Lerwick, January 1, 1872, BARBARA JOHNSTON, examined.

364. You have come from the parish of Sandwick?-Yes.

365. How far is that from Lerwick?-About thirteen miles.

366. Who do you live with there?-I live with my mother, Mrs. Johnston. My father is dead.

367. How many of a family are there of you?-I have two brothers and a sister in the south and there is a sister at home besides myself.

368. You do some work in knitting?-Yes.

369. For whom do you work?-For Mr. Robert Linklater.

370. Do you always work for him?-Yes. I work for nobody else.

371. Have you a pass-book?-No.

372. How long have you worked for Mr. Linklater?-For some years. I cannot say the number exactly.

373. Do you get wool from him, or do you supply it yourself?-I get the worsted from him, and I am paid by him for my work.

374. What kind of wages do you get?-I get 10s. for making a big shawl.

375. That is not the finest quality of knitting?-No; it is about the coarsest.

376. Is it always shawls that you work at?-No; sometimes I make veils.

377. When you take your work back to Mr. Linklater, are you paid for it in money or in goods?-In goods.

378. Do you sometimes ask for money?-Yes.

379. What has he said to you when you asked for money?-He says he never gives it, and that he won't give it to me. I got 2s. from him today; but that is all I ever got, except, I think, one sixpence before. I also got the offer of a pass-book to-day. I had never been offered one before.

380. Was it after you had seen me this forenoon that you got the 2s. and the offer of the pass-book?-Yes.

381. When you get your worsted, is there a bargain made between the merchant and you about the payment you are to receive for the work?-No. I have just an idea what I think the thing will come to; and then, when I come back with it, he gives me what he likes.

382. You don't make any bargain beforehand?-No.

383. But you might do so if liked?-He won't do it. I have asked him, but he said he would see the thing when I came back with it.

384. I suppose, he wants to see the quality of the work before he pays for it?-Yes.

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385. Did you take the pass-book that was offered you today?-No.

386. Why?-I had no particular I reason for not taking it.

387. Did you not want it?-I thought I would not mind it to-day, as I had never had one before.

388. Do you remember the last time before to-day when you went to Mr. Linklater with some of your work?-Yes.

389. How much was due to you at that time?-I think he was due me about £1.

390. That would be for more than one shawl?-Yes; it was for some veils about four months ago. I have made two shawls for him since, and some veils.

391. But the last time you went with your work, how much was due you?-I think there would be about £1.

392. Did you ask for money then?-Yes.

393. Who did you ask it from?-Mr. Linklater.

394. Was it from Mr. Linklater himself, or one of his people?-It was either from Mr. Linklater or from Mr. Anderson; I don't remember which.

395. What was said to you?-He just said that he would not give it, as he never gave any.

396. What goods did you get?-Some stuff for a dress, and some tea and cotton.

397. Had you made up your mind before you went there as to what you wanted to buy?-Yes.

398. And you got what you wanted?-I had to take what he had. I had no other chance.

399. Did you want these goods at that time?-If I had got the money, I would not have bought them at that time.

400. What would you have done with the money?-I would have bought grocery things-things that he did not have.

401. How do you get provisions when you want them?-My mother has a farm, and I work with her.

402. You sometimes work out-of-doors?-Yes.

403. How do you pay your rent for the farm?-My mother sometimes sells an animal, and pays the rent with the price.

404. To whom does she sell these animals?-To any one she can get to buy them. I don't know any one particularly to whom she sells them.

405. Whose ground are you on?-Mr. Bruce of Sand Lodge.

406. Is there any one in your family who goes to the fishing?-No; my brothers are all in the south.

407. Do you sometimes exchange for provisions the goods you get from Mr. Linklater for your hosiery?-No; I always get provisions home with me without changing them.

408. How is that? Have you some money?-Yes. It is by the farm that we have it.

409. Have you ever had occasion to exchange your goods for provisions?-No.

410. Do you know whether that is a common practice in your district?-I don't know.

411. Have you ever received a line instead of goods?-No.

412. Have you ever asked for a line?-No.

413. You say that to-day you took a shawl to Mr. Linklater, which he had ordered, and that you got from him along with goods?- Yes.

414. What was the value put upon the shawl?-10s.; but I had had a shawl in with him before and some veils since I was in the town last.

415. Had these been paid for?-No.

416. Then what was the whole sum due to you day?-I think it was £1, 2s. 6d.

417. Why did you not get your money or goods the last time you went in?-I sent the articles in then; I did not come myself.

418. So that there was no opportunity of settling with you before today?-No.

419. How much money did you ask for to-day?-I asked for 2s., and I got it.

420. Did you not want more?-I did not ask more and I don't think I would have got more if I had asked it. That was the reason why I did not ask it; because Mr. Linklater does not make it his practice give money.

421. Then when you go in any day to the merchant, you just say, 'Here is your shawl,' and you ask how much you are to get for it?-Yes.

422. What is his answer?-He just mentions whatever he likes to give.

423. But he gives you a fair value for the work, does he?-Yes; sometimes.

424. Do you think he puts too low a value on your work?-Yes; I often think that.

425. Do you think there is anything very unreasonable in the value he puts upon it?-Yes; sometimes I do.

426. How long does it take you to make a 10s. shawl-I would make one of them in a month if I was not doing much else.

427. Would it take you so long as a month?-Yes.

428. When you take in the shawl, you say the merchant puts his value upon it: do you ask him for a little more than he says, or are you satisfied with the value he puts on it?-If it is reasonable-like, I say nothing about it.

429. He does not hand you the money?-No.

430. What takes place then?-He asks me what I want in goods. If I ask for money, he says no.

431. Does he give any reason for refusing you money?-He says he never gives it, and he won't give it to me.

432. Is that the only reason that has ever been assigned to you for not giving you money?-Yes. There was one of them in the shop that said that to-day, and Mr. Linklater himself came in and gave me 2s.

433. Then you were refused money to-day by the shopman?-Yes.

434. He wanted you to take the whole amount in goods?-Yes.

435. He did so, because that was the practice?-Yes; and Mr. Linklater himself gave the 2s., and he also offered me a pass-book.

436. Who was the shopman who did that?-I think Robert Anderson is his name.

437. Did you say anything to Mr. Linklater when he came in?-I just asked him for the money.

438. You applied to him for the money when the shopman had refused it?-Yes.

439. And Mr. Linklater gave it to you without any hesitation?- Yes.

440. The 2s. was all that you asked?-Yes. I thought I would not get any money, because I had been denied it before.

441. Did you take the pass-book that was offered to you?-No; I did not think of taking it to-day.

442. Were you thinking of not dealing with Mr. Linklater any more?-No; I have got another shawl from him to make.

443. Did you get the worsted for it to-day?-Yes.

444. Does Mr. Linklater take a note of the quantity of worsted he gives out to you?-Yes; he weighs it.

445. He knows how much it will take to make a shawl, and he weighs the shawl when it is brought back?-Yes.

446. Have you ever bought worsted for your own knitting?-No; I could not get it bought, because I was not in the way of earning money.

447. Have you tried to buy it?-I could not try without the money. He would not give worsted for nothing.

448. And you had no money to pay for it?-No; I could not have it.

449. But when you were taking back your work to him, have you never asked to take part of the value of it in worsted?-I have; and I have been refused.

450. When did you do that?-It is long ago now; but I have done it.

451. What did he say when he refused you the worsted?-That it was a money article and he could not give it without the money.

452. Was it Mr. Linklater or Mr. Anderson who, said so?-I cannot remember now, it is so long ago.

453. Has that happened with you more than once?[Page 9]-I only remember asking it once. I never did it again, when I got a denial the first time.

454. Your sister also knits, and many of your acquaintances?- Yes. I would like to speak on my sister's behalf as well as my own. She is not here, but she wants to say the same thing that I have done.

455. She wants to make the same complaint?-Yes. She is not well, and is unable to come in.

Lerwick, January 1, 1872, ANDREW TULLOCH, examined.

456. You are a fisherman at Cunningsburgh?-Yes.

457. Have you got a piece of ground there?-Yes.

458. You are a tenant of whom?-Mr. Bruce of Sumburgh.

459. Who do you fish for?-Thomas Tulloch at present.

460. Is he a relation of yours?-No.

461. Where is his place?-At Lebidden, close by Sand Lodge. There are some houses there.

462. Do you live there?-No; I live at Cunningsburgh.

463. Is Mr. Thomas Tulloch a tacks-master under Mr. Bruce.

464. What is he?-He is just a merchant carrying on business there, and he has stepped into the fishing. He sold goods before he began to it.

465. Does he keep a shop at Lebidden?-Yes, for the fishermen; and to sell to other people as well.

466. You engage to fish to him: is that for the summer fishing?- Yes, chiefly; or for the whole season, if we can follow it up.

467. Do you go to the Faroe fishing for him?-No; only to the ling fishing, in the six-oared boats.

468. What have you come here to say?-Chiefly, that we should like to have our freedom. We have freedom at present; but we are afraid of young Mr. Bruce taking the tack of the tenants into his own hands. He got a lease of the tenants from his father last season.

469. What did he get a lease of?-Of his father's premises at Cunningsburgh.

470. Then he got a lease of the whole lands of Cunningsburgh?- Yes, from his father. That was his statement the last time we settled with him.

471. What did he say then?-He said he was prepared to settle with the tenants, because he had got a lease from his father of the lands.

472. But you say you have your freedom?-Yes, at present; but we are doubtful if we can keep it, because young Mr. Bruce has taken the tenants at the place where he is living himself-at Dunrossness. He took the tenants there some three or four years ago, and he has built a house; and both we and the merchant are doubtful that he may take us into his own hand too. We rather think we might be worse off if we were taken back.

473. What do you mean by being taken back?-I mean, if the tenants were taken into his own hands again.

474. Have you any objection to the arrangement you have just now with Mr. Thomas Tulloch?-We cannot complain of it, further than that we don't know the price we are to get until we settle. We never had any chance of knowing that from any merchant we ever dealt with.

475. When do you arrange to go out to fish?-About the beginning of May. In some years it may be a month or a fortnight earlier, just as the weather is.

476. At that time do you make a bargain with Mr. Tulloch about the fishing, to fish for him, during the whole season?-Yes. We have so much confidence in him that we do not make any written agreement; it is all done by word of mouth.

477. To whom do the boats belong that you go out in?-The boat I go in is our own. It belongs to the crew.

478. How many of you are there?-Five men and a boy.

479. How long have you had your boat?-We have had our present boat for about seven or eight years. She was a second-hand boat, about five years old, when we got her.

480. You bought her yourselves?-Yes.

481. Is the price all paid up now?-Yes; it was paid a few years ago.

482. Then Mr. Tulloch makes his arrangement with you to go to fish about the 1st of May?-Yes.

483. What is the bargain? Is it that you are to fish for him during the whole season?-No; only till Lammas that is, the end of July; and after that we stick to the herring fishing.

484. But when you are at the ling fishing you give him all your fish?-Yes; the whole. Every time we come ashore we deliver them to his factor.

485. That is for the purpose of being cured?-Yes.

486. He takes an account of them as he receives them?-Yes.

487. And the only complaint you have against Mr. Tulloch is, that you don't get settled until when?-We get settled generally at settlement time but we don't know our price until we come to settle.

488. When is the settlement made?-We are not quite settled yet for last year; but when we are called on by our landlord to pay our rent, Mr. Tulloch has no objection to give us money for that.

489. Who do you pay your rent to?-To Mr. Bruce; he is the proprietor.

490. Then your complaint is, that you don't know the price of your fish until January?-Yes.

491. Would you rather contract with Mr. Tulloch to supply all your fish at so much per cwt.?-Yes.

492. But you cannot get that bargain made?-Some of the men seem very reluctant to agree to it. A few of them have said that they would leave and go to another merchant before they would have that.

493. Does Mr. Tulloch keep a store?-Yes; he has a store, and he supplies all the fishermen.

494. What does he supply them with?-Just with material. He also keeps meal; and they take it from him, more or less, as their families require it. He keeps other things besides, such as lines, hooks, and tar for the boats.

495. Are these things which you get from the store marked down in pass-books of your own, or in the books of the store?-We can have a book for ourselves if we like. I did not bring mine with me. 496. Does the storekeeper mark the things in your pass-book as you get them?-Yes.

497. Are the quantities of fish also marked into that pass-book as they are delivered?-No; they are entered into another book which the factor keeps, and we keep the accounts in a book for ourselves.

498. You mark them down for yourselves in another book?-Yes.

499. Is that the general practice among the fishermen in your locality?-It is; and then we compare the quantities with the factor before we go up to settle.

500. Then each fisherman has two books-a passbook for his dealings with the store, and a book of his own in which he marks down the quantities of fish delivered?-Yes.

501. When you came to settle, do you generally get a large balance paid to you in cash?-Every year is not alike. If it has been a bad fishing season, and if the crops are light, then perhaps the accounts will not square. But there have been two or three good seasons lately.

502. When the accounts do not square, you mean that, you may be in debt to the fish-merchant?-Yes; £2 or so.

503. And he allows that to over, and to be paid next year?-Yes.

504. But you have no serious complaint to make about that system?-No; we cannot complain about the regulations in Shetland.

505. Could you make a better bargain with anybody else?-I don't think we could-in Shetland.

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506. Is that your fault, or the fault of the fish-merchant?-I think, for my own part, I would stick into any place where I could get the best bargain. We have been fishing for some years to some of the merchants who would give 3d. or 6d. per cwt. more for the fish than we could get in Lerwick, and therefore we have stuck by them.

507. Suppose another merchant were at hand at Cunningsburgh, would you be quite at liberty to sell your fish to him?-Yes.

508. Is there any such merchant there within reach of you?-There is another merchant close by, named James Smith. Part of the men on the beach I belong to fish for him, and part to Thomas Tulloch.

509. Are there any other stores than Mr. Tulloch's at Cunningsburgh or in the neighbourhood?-There are some small shops that we could get small groceries from, but I do not do much with them.

510. Suppose you were to agree at the beginning of the season to sell your fish to another than Mr. Tulloch, would you have any difficulty in getting credit at his store for your supplies?-He would not like that very well.

511. Would you not get your supplies there?-No, not unless the man who asked them was one he was well acquainted with.

512. Would you be able to get them anywhere else?-I don't know. I don't think I would try to get them, unless at the place I was sending my fish to.

513. But if you had not the money yourself, would you get credit for your supplies during the summer from any other shopkeeper, either in Lerwick or Cunningsburgh?-Yes. All the fish-merchants we deal with in Lerwick I can get a little credit from up to the present day.

514. And in that way you are not bound over to Mr. Tulloch in any way?-No. We can leave him this season if we have a mind.

515. You were to say something about the herring fishing: I thought there was not much herring fishing here?-There will be nothing at all this season in Shetland. We generally fished to Messrs. Hay & Co. when we were in it.

516. Have you any complaint to make about it?-Much the same as about the ling fishing The don't like to give a stated price.

517. Where do you deliver the fish when you go to the herring fishing?-There is a small ghioe* close by our own place at Cunningsburgh. Hay & Co. send down a cooper there, and they have a booth for their stores close by.

518. What is the bargain you make with them about that?-They generally wish us to go to the fishing, and they will pay us accordingly.

519. What do you do about a boat?-We use the same boat as we have in the ling fishing.

520. Then your only complaint about the herring fishery is, that you don't know the price until settling time?-Yes. But there has been no herring fishery on the island at all this season, to speak of.

521. Do you require advances of money at all during the season?- We are often in want of a few shillings.

522. How do you get that?-The man we are dealing with just now (Mr. Tulloch) has never said no, so far as what we asked was reasonable. I got an advance of £2 from him last season to buy a cow. We were out of milk that season, and he did not refuse me the money when I asked it.

523. Do you get advances from Messrs. Hay also when you need it?-1 don't think they are so very frank about that, and I don't like to ask it; but they will give us any small thing we need from their shops.

* <Gio>-A deep ravine which admits the sea.-<Edmonstone's Glossary>.

524. Do they supply you with goods also?-Yes.

525. Where is their store from which you get the goods?-There is their shop in town.

526. Do you come to Lerwick for them?-Yes.

527. Do you run an account there?-Sometimes we do, and sometimes not; but we have not much to do with Messrs. Hay on that footing.

528. You said that your reason for coming here and offering to give evidence to-day was, that you were afraid of young Mr. Bruce taking the fishing into his own hands?-Yes; that is the thing we find to be most oppressive, if it was coming to be the case.

529. Is it the general opinion in the country that he has undertaken to manage the fishings on his father's estates?-He addressed himself so in the note he gave us. He called himself general merchant and fish-curer.

530. Did he give you intimation of that one year at rent time?- Yes; that was last year.

531. But he has not yet taken the management of the fishing at Cunningsburgh?-No.

532. Has he fishing establishments elsewhere?-He has-at Dunrossness. He has taken all the tenants there into his own hands. The property, I daresay, is twice as large as Cunningsburgh.

533. Do you know from your own knowledge whether the tenants there are obliged to fish for him?-Yes; they are fishing to himself.

534. Have they no choice but to fish for him?-I don't think it. As far as my knowledge goes, they have not.

535. Are you acquainted with any of the fishermen there?-I know a little about them, from passing them on the road.

536. Have they ever complained to you about the state of matters at Dunrossness?-I cannot say much about that, except that they think they would have been fully better with their freedom.

537. Have they not got their freedom?-They cannot have their freedom when they are fishing to him.

538. But they may fish to him of their own free will?-They might; but I think he has gripped them so that they cannot have their freedom.

539. That, however, is only your own supposition?-I think it is true. It is so true that both the merchant and us are afraid that he will grip us too.

Lerwick, January 1, 1872, SIMON LAURENSON, examined.

540. You are a fisherman at Cunningsburgh?-Yes.

541. Do you fish for Mr. Tulloch?-No; I fish for James Smith.

542. You have heard the evidence of the previous witness, Andrew Tulloch?-Yes.

543. Is the statement you wish to make very much the same as his?-Very much the same. We want to know, as British subjects, whether, if we pay our rent annually, we are entitled to our freedom.

544. You mean, whether you are to be allowed to fish to any person you choose?-Yes; to fish to any person, or to work at any kind of work for which we have a mind.

545. Have you been told by young Mr. Bruce, or any one else on his behalf, that you are not to have your freedom?-No. We only got a hint of it from the fish-merchant.

546. And your alarm has been excited by what you have heard from the people at Dunrossness?-Yes.

547. Do you know what Mr. Bruce's system is with the tenants under him there?-I cannot say exactly, except that they are not well satisfied with it. At least I know that some of them are not satisfied.

<Adjourned>.

[Page 11] Lerwick: Tuesday, January 2, 1872.

LAURENCE MAIL, examined.

548. You are a fisherman at Scatness, in Dunrossness?-I am.

549. Are you a tenant of land?-Yes.

550. Under whom?-Under Mr. Bruce of Sumburgh.

551. How much rent do you pay?-For the present year I pay between £10 and £11 of rent.

552. Have you more land this year than usual?-Yes; I have more than I used to have.

553. Do you fish in the home fishing?-Yes.

554. Do you fish in the Faroe fishing?-No; I don't go to it.

555. How long have you been at Dunrossness?-Ever since I was a child.

556. Have you always been in the same house?-Yes; except for about two and a half years.

557. What is your age?-I am thirty-eight years old.

558. You have come here today to make some statement about the system of fishing?-Yes.

559. What is the complaint you wish to make?-There is one thing we complain of: that we are bound to deliver our fish, wet or green, to the landlord.

560. That is, you have to deliver the fish as they are caught?-Yes; of course we have to take out the bowels and cut off the heads: it is the bodies of the fish we give. We think it would be much better if we had liberty to dry the fish ourselves, as we used to do formerly.

561. To whom are you bound to give your fish?-To Mr. Bruce, our landlord.

562. Is he a fish-curer or fish-merchant?-Yes.

563. Is it Mr. Bruce or his son that you are speaking of?-It is young Mr. Bruce. He is the landlord or tack-master. His father is alive; but I think young Mr. Bruce has got power from his father to manage the tenants according to his own pleasure.

564. Do you pay your rent to young Mr. Bruce?-Yes.

565. And does he give you a receipt for it in his own name?-We settle once a year with him for our fishing, and for the store goods we have got, and rent and everything together.

566. Do you get an account for the whole?-He generally gives us a copy of our account. Sometimes, perhaps, he does not do so; but he will give it if we ask for it.

567. Have you got a copy of your account for any year with you?- I have not got one here, but I will send one.

568. Is that all you have got to say on the subject of your complaint?-No; I have something more. Of course, as we are bound to fish for Mr. Bruce, a man, unless he has money of his own, is shut up to deal at Mr. Bruce's shop. His credit is gone at every other place, and that binds us to take our goods from his store; and generally the goods there are sold at the highest value. Meal, particularly, has for some years been 4s. a boll above what it was in Lerwick; and very often, when we ask the price of goods at the time we get them, they do not know the price which they are to charge us, and we never learn what the price is until we come to settle.

569. Is there any other store in the neighbourhood from which you could purchase at a cheaper rate?-There are some other stores in the parish that we could purchase from.

570. Where is the store situated that you are speaking of?-It is situated not very far from us-perhaps about a mile or more from Scatness.

571. Is that the most populous part of Dunrossness parish?-No; Scatness is at the very land's end, near Sumburgh point.

572. Are there many fishermen there?-There are good many. There is a population down that way of nearly 500, most of whom are fishermen; and out of the whole lot of them there was not a man who would come here and represent their case except myself. Every man among them was frightened he would get his warning if he came forward.

573. How do you know that?-They said so themselves.

574. Was there any meeting on the subject?-Yes; there was a meeting held last Friday night.

575. What were the names of the men who said they were afraid to come?-There was one Sinclair Cheyne: he said that perhaps they might get their warning; and I think Robert Malcolmson also signified something of the same kind. However, I know it was the general feeling among the whole lot of them.

576. Was there any particular ground stated for that apprehension?-I don't know. Of course every one suspected that if the landlord heard that they were coming forward with any case against him, he would warn them out. That was the general suspicion.

577. Has the landlord or his factor ever told you that a man not dealing at the store, or refusing to deliver his fish to him (the landlord), would be turned out of his farm?-The landlord never told me exactly that if I did not fish for him I would be turned out, but I have seen an evidence of that in the case of a neighbour.

578. What was the name of that neighbour?-James Harper. His son dried a few hundredweight of fish for himself and gave them to Mr. Bruce, and on that account his father was warned.

579. Do you say that the father was warned although the son gave the fish to Mr. Bruce?-Yes, he gave then to him dried; and because he did not give them to him wet, his father was warned.

580. When was that?-I think it was seven or eight years ago; and, if I am not mistaken, the father had to pay 30s. so that he might sit still.

581. But he did sit still?-Yes; he is there yet.

582. Do you know anything about the case of a James Brown?- Yes; it was reported, I believe, to Mr. Bruce that Brown had given some fish to some other merchant, and directly his house was put up for let.

583. In what way was it put up for let? Was it advertised?-Yes; it was advertised at the store, as it was a public place.

584. Did you see the notice?-No; I did not see it, but I was informed that some notice was put up. The thing was found out to be false, and Brown got leave to stay where he was.

585. How long ago was that?-I could not exactly say, but I think it was somewhere about eight or ten years ago.

586. Have you known of any person being warned off the ground for not dealing at the store?-No; there is no compulsion about that. We have liberty to deal at any place we like; but when our credit is cut off the way I have mentioned, there is no use in having that liberty.

587. You say your credit is cut off because you are compelled to fish for the landlord?-Yes.

588. Therefore that is virtually compulsion to deal at the store: is that what you mean to say?-Yes; of course it comes to that. Suppose we have liberty to deal at any place we like, still if a man does not have money his credit is cut off with any other merchant, so that he must deal at the landlord's store.

589. When you deliver your fish, do you get any money that you want?-Yes. Mr. Bruce always gave me money when I wanted it, if he had money of mine in his hands; indeed he always gave me what money I asked, whether I had any to get or not. I always found him very generous in that way.

590. Therefore, whenever you wanted money for your fish you got it, even although it was a long time before settling day?-Yes; Mr. Bruce will give money at any time throughout the whole season, especially to men that he knows have it to get.

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591. You have no complaint to make about that?-No.

592. The fishing, I understand, begins in April?-Yes.

593. And when does it end?-About September.

594. Suppose you wanted to draw all the money, or about all the money, that was due to you in August or September, is it likely that you would get it?-If I did not have very much to get, perhaps I might get it all, or perhaps more; but if I did have much to get, I don't think he would be inclined to give it all.

595. If you wanted anything, and could not get the money, would you be obliged to take the goods out of his store?-Of course if I could not get money from him, and was requiring the goods, I had no other chance than taking them from the store.

596. If you wanted a supply of provisions or clothing, you would have to get them there?-Yes.

597. Do you get both provisions and clothes at the store?-There is not much clothing there.

598. Where do you get the rest of your clothing?-At any place where we can get it cheapest when we can have a few shillings in hand.

599. Where are the other stores in that district?-There is a man, Mr. Gavin Henderson, who has a store about four or five miles from us; and I believe he generally sells things at as cheap a rate as they can be got in the country.

600. Have you dealt at his store?-Yes; occasionally.

601. Do you find the goods that you get from Henderson to be cheaper than those in Mr. Bruce's store?-Yes; they are cheaper than we can get them at any other place.

602. Give me an instance of that: have you bought meal at both places?-No, I have not bought meal from there.

603. What have you bought at Henderson's store?-I have sometimes bought leather for making boots and shoes.

604. Do you not buy your shoes ready-made?-No.

605. You buy your leather, and get somebody to make them?- Yes.

606. What is the difference in the price of the leather at the two places?-We generally think that we can get it a few shillings cheaper at Henderson's store than we can get it elsewhere.

607. Do you mean that the leather for a pair of boots is a few shillings cheaper at Henderson's store than at Mr. Bruce's?-Yes.

608. Is there any other article you can specify on which there is a difference of price?-I don't know shout anything else in particular.

609. Where do you get your bread?-We buy all our meal, and bake it for ourselves.

610. You spoke about the meal being 4s. a boll cheaper at Lerwick than at Mr. Bruce's: do you know that because you have bought it there yourself?-No; but I have asked what the price of the meal was in Lerwick-sometimes when I was there, and sometimes from people that I could rely upon. Of course we did not know what the price of Mr. Bruce's meal was until we came to settle.

611. But you found out at settling time that Mr. Bruce had charged you 4s. more per boll than meal was selling for at the same time in Lerwick?-Yes.

612. Are you quite sure of that?-Yes.

613. Is the quality of meal from the store good?-Generally it is;

614. You have no fault to find with the quality?-I have no complaint against it or against the quality of any of the goods sold there; they are generally good.

615. What is the price of a boll of meal at Mr. Bruce's store just now?-I cannot say. There is not much meal bought at the store about this time. Most of us have small farms of our own from which we get meal.

616. Then it is generally in summer that you buy meal from Mr. Bruce's store?-Yes.

617. What was the price of meal during last summer?-I cannot say, because I had none from them last summer, except the fourth of a boll.

618. What was the price of that?-I won't know the price of it until settling time. I don't think any man dealing there knows the price of his meal until that time.

619. Is the only compulsion upon you to fish for Mr. Bruce, that you are afraid of being turned out of your holdings?-Of course.

620. If you did not fish for him, or if you sold your fish to another, would you have to pay liberty money?-I don't think there is anything of that kind done with us.

621. You have no written leases?-No. We got the offer of a lease last year. But it would have made us worse than we are, because Mr. Bruce would give a lease for fifty years; but he had it in his power every ten years to raise the rent, so that it would have been double at the end of the fifty years.

622. But you had it in your power to refuse that?-Of course; and we did refuse it.

623. But you had it in your power to refuse at the end of the ten years, as well as at first, to pay the increased rent?-No. That was the condition he offered to give us the lease upon. Besides, he was to have it in his power to cause any man who took a lease to make such improvements as he thought proper; and if he did not make the improvements then Mr. Bruce was to make them himself, and charge the men a certain interest.

624. Was the lease which he offered you in writing?-No, it was in print. I will send a copy of it.

625. You say there is no liberty money paid in your district now?-No. My father paid 50s. of liberty money at one time; but the rents have been raised, so that the liberty money is included in the rent now.

626. How long ago was that?-I think it is about ten years since the rent was raised.

627. Have you any other reason than you have stated for supposing that you will be turned out of your ground if you fished for another than Mr. Bruce?-It is a general belief that we would be turned out.

628. But I want to know the ground of that belief. How long is it since Mr. Bruce took up the business?-Eleven years.

629. Was there at that time any intimation made to you or to the other tenants that you were expected to hand your fish over to him?-There was a letter from old Mr. Bruce sent round to all his tenants. One letter served for them all. If I am not mistaken, the officer went round among them with it.

630. Did he show you the letter?-He read the letter; and in it Mr. Bruce stated that he gave his tenants over into the hands of his son. His son became his tack-master.

631. That letter was not delivered to you?-No; I don't think it was.

632. Was there not a copy of it sent to each tenant?-I don't think there was. It is eleven years ago; and I don't remember any of the particulars that were in it.

633. Do you mean to say that that letter was the beginning of the understanding which now exists about fishing?-Certainly it was.

634. What did it say about that matter?-I really cannot say now what was in the letter.

635. Did it intimate that he had handed over the Dunrossness tenants to his son?-Yes; I think that was the purport of the thing.

636. Did it say anything about the fishing?-It was understood that he handed over the fishing. At that time there were different merchants in Lerwick who were receiving fish from the tenants, and they had all to remove their goods from that district.

637. Had they stores?-Yes, they had stores and goods for supplying the fishermen; and they had all to remove except Messrs. Hay & Co.

638. Were these merchants warned out?-I cannot say.

639. I suppose they paid rent to Mr. Bruce for these stores?-Yes; at least for liberty to have the stores there.

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640. Who were these merchants?-Hay & Co. were put out of the store that Mr. Bruce now occupies.

641. But they have a store at Dunrossness yet?-Yes, they have a store there.

642. How far is it from you?-I think about a quarter of an hour's walk.

643. Is it nearer your place than Gavin Henderson's store?-Yes.

644. Is Hay & Company's store on Mr. Bruce's property?-Yes; but they have a lease of it, otherwise I believe they would not have been there.

645. Can you not sell your fish to Messrs. Hay & Co.?-No.

646. From whom do they buy fish in that quarter?-The tenants of Mr. Bruce of Simbister, through the parish, have liberty to sell their fish where they please, and some of them are sold to Hay & Co.

647. Have you ever been prevented from selling your fish to Messrs. Hay?-I never tried to sell my fish to any other person than Mr. Bruce since he took the fishing.

648. Do you know if any man has tried to do that?-Yes; there are various men who have sold a few to other merchants. On one occasion young Mr. Bruce asked me whether I had sold any fish to any other person than him.

649. When was that?-It would be about half a dozen years ago. I told him I had sold a little, and I did not think I was doing any sin before God or man for doing it.

650. You were not turned out for that?-No.

651. Have you any grievance in Dunrossness with regard to whales?-Yes, we often drive whales on shore there; and after they are killed and pulled ashore, and the oil all taken out, the landlord takes one-third.

652. But you are allowed to sell the other two-thirds?-Yes.

653. To whom do you sell the two-thirds of the oil?-Generally to merchants in Lerwick.

654. How are you paid for that?-Not very well at the present time.

655. Are you paid in money?-Yes; in cash. Of course it comes through the proprietor's hands.

656. Does it enter into your annual accounting with the proprietor?-Yes.

657. The proprietor gets the whole money for the oil, retains his third, and hands you over or puts to your credit the remaining two-thirds?-Yes. Of course if a man requires the money to clear his way with the proprietor, it answers that end. If not, then the proprietors pass over the money to him.

658. Do you really think that if the proprietor had no store there, and you could buy your dry goods and provisions from anybody you like, you would be better off with respect to what you buy?- No; we could not do without the proprietor's store, because, if we have to give our earnings to the proprietor, we are obliged to take goods from his store in return.

659. But supposing you had liberty to sell your fish where you pleased, and to buy your goods where you pleased, do you think you would be any better off than you are?-Yes. There is a man named Laurence Leslie who went to the fishing in the same boat with me last summer. He lives in Lerwick, and was a free man, and he dried his fish for himself, and after he had paid for salt and curing he had about £5 more than any of us.

660. Do you mean that he had about £5 more from the home fishing than you had?-Yes.

661. Can you tell now the proceeds of your last summer's fishing?- We will be paid the price that has been paid already in the country.

662. But you don't know yet what you are to get?-No; Mr. Bruce said at the commencement that he would give us the currency of the country. Now Mr. Bruce is one of the greatest fish-dealers in the country, and of course he has it so far in his power to make the currency; but it is likely we will get the same as the other merchants are paying.

663. Then, in speaking of the sum which Leslie has earned more than you, you are calculating in this way: you know the price which other merchants have paid, and you know the quantity you have delivered?-Yes; and we know in that way what the amount will be.

664. What do you think the amount of your take will be?-About £18.

665. You think your fishing for the whole of last season will be £18, at the prices which are going in Lerwick?-Yes.

666. And you know how much Laurence Leslie has got?-Yes.

667. Had he about the same quantity of fish as you-Yes; he had the same quantity divided green.

668. What quantity had you?-I cannot exactly say. We had so much ling, so much cod, and so much saith.

669. You say he was in the same boat with you: were not all the boat's crew obliged to fish to Mr. Bruce?-All but that one man.

670. You separated your fish: did you just give Leslie his proportion of the whole fish in the boat?-Yes. We kept an account of his fish and of ours, and we gave him his share; and then he dried his part for himself.

671. How many men were in the boat?-Six.

672. Then, when you came to shore, you delivered five-sixths of the fish to Mr. Bruce, and Leslie got one sixth?-Yes; that was the way it generally went. Sometimes we would give all the fish to Mr. Bruce, and sometimes all to Laurence Leslie, and we kept an account; so that we could put the thing all right in the end.

673. Did you do that among yourselves?-Yes.

674. How did Leslie happen to go in that boat among Mr. Bruce's men?-Because he belonged to the place originally, and he agreed with us to go. He only left the place last year.

675. Has he not had a farm there for the last year?-No.

676. And therefore he did not consider himself bound to deliver his fish to Mr. Bruce?-Yes.

677. Who did he sell his fish to?-To Hay.

678. Were they cured when he sold them?-Yes. Mr. Bruce would not allow him to weigh his fish on his scales and weights, because he would not give them to him.

679. Who forbade him?-Mr. Bruce's factor.

680. Was that Mr. Irvine?-It was not Mr. Irvine; it was the man who was there in his place. I recollect that one day we were a good deal put about in consequence of that. It was a very coarse day at the fishing, and Hay & Co. did not have weights at the place, and Mr. Bruce's man would not allow us to weigh the fish on his weights.

681. But you were obliged to weigh them in order to find out how much was Mr. Bruce's share?-We were obliged to weigh the fish in order to know how they were to be divided among ourselves, and they had to lie for a whole day until weights were got.

682. Do you know how much money Leslie got for his fishing?-I think the whole amount was pretty nearly £26; but then he had expenses for salt and cure to be taken from that-perhaps 30s.

683. He would also have his own time and trouble to allow for?- He had a lad for curing the fish; that is included in the 30s. Of course Leslie would have some more trouble with it than we had.

684. That makes a difference of £6, 10s. between you, whereas you said the difference was about £5?-There may be some difference of that kind; I am not exactly sure to a few shillings.

685. Was there no objection made to Laurence Leslie going in the boat with you?-They did not know that he was, not to fish for Mr. Bruce until we commenced the fishing, and then they could not object; but Mr. Bruce's rule is, that he won't take part of a boat. The whole boat must be for him; and in that way there have been men who have been forced to part company who were nearly as bad to part as man and wife.

686. After the boat's crew was made up, was any objection taken to Leslie fishing with you?-They could not object then, because we had begun to the fishing, [Page 14] and they could not get another man to take his place, even although they had objected.

687. Do you keep a pass-book, at Mr. Bruce's store for the supplies you get for your house?-No; it would be of no use for me to do so.

688. Why?-Because I do not know the prices of the goods, and they won't mark them down themselves.

689. But they would mark the quantities of the articles you got, would they not?-No; they would not be bothered with that.

690. Have you ever asked for a pass-book?-Yes; I had a pass-book, and I had to drop it, because Irvine said he would not be bothered with it.

691. Does Mr. Irvine keep the store himself?-Yes.

692. Does he collect the rents on the property?-No; Mr. Bruce carries through the annual accounting himself.

693. When you go to settle with him, the books of the store are all made up by Mr. Irvine; and does Mr. Bruce state the balance to you?-Yes.

694. Does he show you how it is made up?-Mr. Irvine tells us the amount we have had from the store, and hands that in to Mr. Bruce. Mr. Bruce enters that against us along with the rent, and tells us the balance.

695. What means have you for checking that statement of his? How do you know whether it is correct or not?-We don't have the chance of knowing whether is correct or not.

696. Do you not know how much goods you have got?-Perhaps we might; but we cannot know the price of the goods.