Chapter II: Front Matter (2)

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Will you look at the _Year Book for 1942_? I have copies of the extracts. Would you turn to Page 37 of that book? If you look back one or two pages in the book, you will find that that is an article entitled “The Work of the Norway Branch of the Auslands-Organisation in the War.” Is that written by your Landesgruppenleiter in Norway?

BOHLE: I assume so, I cannot recall this.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Will you look at Page 37, and you will see that there are some passages in the book that you have in front of you that have been lightly marked in pencil along the side.

BOHLE: Yes, I have it.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Will you find the paragraph which starts, “Therefore, soon after the outbreak of war in September 1939...” Have you got that?

BOHLE: Yes, I have it.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Perhaps you will be so kind as to follow me.

“Therefore, soon after the outbreak of war in September 1939,
the enlargement and extension...”

BOHLE: Yes, I am following you.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: “...the enlargement and extension of
the German Legation in Oslo and of the consulates at Bergen,
Trondheim, Stavanger, Kristiansand, Hamgesund, Narvik and
Kirkenes proved to be of primary importance. This enlargement of
the Reich agencies resulted in the local organization of the
NSDAP in Norway having to increase its field of activity too, in
the same proportion, in order to support the work of the Reich
agencies, particularly by Party members and other Germans who
had a thorough knowledge of the country and language.”

Why, in September ’39, was it necessary for the Party to increase its organization in Norway with people having higher knowledge of the country and language? Answer me that before you read on. You need not worry about the rest; we are going to deal with it. Why was it necessary in 1939 to enlarge your organization?

BOHLE: In Norway, as far as I recall, there were only 80 members of the Party in all, and it goes without saying that after the outbreak of the war the official agencies, not only of Germany but also, as you know, those of other states, were enlarged and were assisted by national elements, who knew the country concerned. That did not hold true for Germany alone but for all the nations participating in the war.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Yes. I still do not understand why your perfectly harmless organization should have found it necessary to increase its membership with people who had a profound knowledge of the language and the country. Why should the Auslands-Organisation have found it necessary?

BOHLE: Because the Reich agencies needed Germans who knew the country and the people, especially to furnish information on the German targets of attack in Norway—exactly what every other nation did, too.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Well, your answer is, is it, that you required them to tell you about targets in Norway? Is that your answer?

BOHLE: No, I did not say that. I said that they were to be at the disposal of the agencies in Norway in case they were needed for public enlightenment, that is for German propaganda purposes among the Norwegians. I would like to emphasize once again that that was done not only by Germany but, of course, by all the warring countries.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Very well, let us go on and see what happens next:

“The choice and assignment of these supplementary collaborators
was carried out by the local leader of the organization in close
collaboration with the representatives of the Reich. Therefore,
from the first moment of the outbreak of war a great number of
Party members were taken away from their jobs and employed in
the service of the nation and the fatherland. Without any
hesitation and without considering their personal interests,
their families, their careers or their property, they joined the
ranks and devoted themselves body and soul to the new and often
dangerous tasks.”

Tell me, was finding out and reporting about the Norwegian people, was that an “often dangerous task”?

BOHLE: Certainly not.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: What, then, were the often dangerous tasks which your own Landesgruppenleiter is saying members of his organization were undertaking from the very moment war broke out, in September ’39?

BOHLE: I cannot tell you anything about that, for I have no knowledge whatsoever about this and I cannot conceive any of these dangerous tasks. I have the impression from this article, which, incidentally I did not know about until now, that the Landesgruppenleiter had the plausible desire to give more importance to his organization than it had in reality.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: But you say you did not know about this. This appeared in the official yearbook of your organization. Did you never read what appeared in that book?

BOHLE: Certainly not everything, for I am not familiar with this article.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: You have told us that the members of your organization took no part in this. What about the people who were responsible for publishing that book? Did they not ever draw your attention to an article of that kind?

BOHLE: Obviously not.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Just look at the next little paragraph:

“The success of their work, which was done with all secrecy, was
revealed when, on 9 April 1940, German troops landed in Norway
and forestalled the planned flank attack of the Allies.”

What work was revealed on the 9th of April? What work which had been done with all secrecy was revealed on the 9th of April, work carried out by members of your organization?

BOHLE: I am sorry I cannot reply, for I have no knowledge whatsoever of this. I do not know.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I see. Will you look down to the last paragraph of that page? It is the second sentence—four, five lines down—at the end of the fifth line. I beg your pardon. You have the book in front of you. Will you look at Page 40 of the book? In the center of a paragraph the last word of one of the lines starts with “According to the task plan...” Have you got it? It is Page 40. To save time, let me read it:

“According to the task plan which had been prepared since the
outbreak of the war, the Landeskreisleitung gave orders on 7
April for Phase 1 of the state of employment...”

It does not sound, does it, like plans being made for different phases of an operation? It does not sound, does it, as if the work of your organization had been simply finding out about Norwegian people?

BOHLE: That might have been since this is entirely new to me, exclusively an agreement within the country itself with military or other authorities. I have had no knowledge of it up to this moment.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: So I understand you to say. But you were the head of this organization, were you not?

BOHLE: Yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: You have come before this International Tribunal and given them evidence, presumably saying you are in a position to give them truthful and accurate evidence; is that so?

BOHLE: Yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Do you understand that?

BOHLE: Yes, I have understood that.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Well, then, do I understand you to say now that you do not know what was happening in your organization, and therefore you are not in a position to give evidence as to whether or not it was a Fifth Column business?

BOHLE: It is quite evident that in an organization of this size the leader, who has his office at Berlin, cannot be closely acquainted with everything which is going on abroad and, more so, what is done against his instructions. I did not have the same disciplinary authority over my Party members abroad as did, for instance, some Gauleiter within the Reich. I need not elaborate on that, because it is self-evident. It is also evident, and this I know, that some Germans abroad, who were called on because of their patriotism in individual cases let themselves be used for purposes without the knowledge of the Auslands-Organisation and against its explicit instructions.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: In the interest of time we will not pursue that particular sphere of activity in Norway, just in case it may have been an exception which you did not know about.

Let me turn to something else. Will you look at Page 65 of that book?

Is that an article by your Landesgruppenleiter in Greece?

BOHLE: Yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Is it in the form of a day-to-day diary of the activities of the Auslands-Organisation in Greece when German troops invaded that country?

BOHLE: Yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Will you look at Page 65?

“Sunday the 27th of April. Swastika on the Acropolis.”

That is the heading. I beg your pardon. I do not know whether it comes directly under that heading. This is the Landesgruppenleiter talking:

“I set out immediately, quickly visiting the other
quarters,”—where the German colony had been interned—“the
Philadelphia and the Institute. I enjoined the inmates of the
house in Academy Street to give up returning home today, and to
hold themselves in readiness. After all, we did want to help the
German troops immediately with our knowledge of the language and
the district. Now the moment has come. We must start in
immediately.”

Do you know...

BOHLE: Yes, I even know all about this. It certainly must be evident that the moment German troops occupied a foreign city and freed the Germans living abroad who had been interned, the latter would put themselves at the disposal of the German troops and help them in every respect as guides, interpreters, or the like. That is certainly the most logical thing in the world.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: That is in fact what they did do, and the assistance that your organization appears to have given them is that it managed to organize them and get them ready to do it; is that not so? That is what your Landesgruppenleiter seems to be doing?

BOHLE: I did not understand this question. Will you please repeat it?

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Do you understand that it is your Landesgruppenleiter who is organizing the members of your organization, organizing them so that they can give their assistance most beneficially to the invading armies?

BOHLE: That is a completely wrong way to express it. The Landesgruppenleiter in Greece, who filled that post from 1934, could not possibly tell whether there was to be an invasion of Greece or not. That had not the slightest thing to do with the nature of his organization. The moment that German troops were in the country it stands to reason that they would welcome their countrymen, act as their hosts, and help them in every way. That was a patriotic duty taken for granted.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I see.

Just turn to Page 66, the next page. Will you find the paragraph which commences “Meanwhile I organized the employment of all Party members to do auxiliary service for the Armed Forces.”

Do you have that?

BOHLE: I understand it...

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: You had better find the place.

BOHLE: Where shall I find that place?

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: On Page 66. It is a new paragraph.

BOHLE: Yes, I have it now.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: “Meanwhile I organized the employment of all Party members to do auxiliary service for the Armed Forces.”

It really looks now as though the Landesgruppenleiter is organizing them, does it not?

BOHLE: In this instance, yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: “Soon our boys and girls could be seen
riding proud and radiant in their Hitler Youth uniforms, beside
the German soldiers on motorcycles and in Army cars....”

Did you yourself know of the organization and work that your Landesgruppenleiter had put in in Greece to assist your armies in semimilitary capacities, or was that another case like Norway which you did not know anything about?

BOHLE: The Landesgruppenleiter in Greece did not create a semimilitary organization, but set up of course in this instance an organization to aid the troops entering the country in a sector which was entirely civilian.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Very well; I just want to ask you about another matter. Have you got a document there which is a telegram from somebody called Stohrer, in Madrid?

BOHLE: Stohrer, yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Did Stohrer have something to do with the German Embassy in Madrid?

BOHLE: Stohrer was the German Ambassador himself; Doctor Von Stohrer.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: This is dated 23 October 1939. Just let us see what it says:

“The Landesgruppenleiter can obtain a very suitable house for
accommodating the Landesgruppe, as well as the German Labor
Front, the Ortsgruppe, the Hitler Youth, and the German House
Madrid, also room available in case of embassy having to spread
out, and especially a very suitable isolated room for the
possible installation of second secret radio transmitter, which
can no longer be housed at the school because of reopening.

“Landesgruppenleiter requests me to rent the house through the
embassy, in which way very considerable tax expense will be
avoided. Have no hesitation, in view of anticipated partial use
by embassy as mentioned above. If you do not agree I request
wire by return.

“Please submit also to Gauleiter Bohle.”

Were you telling the truth to this Tribunal when you told them some 30 minutes ago that you had no knowledge of wireless sets being used by your organization?

BOHLE: Yes, because I have no knowledge of these transmitters, or their use; I must assume that it concerns apparatus of the embassy.

DR. SEIDL: The copy of the telegram, as I have it before me, does not indicate to whom this wire was addressed. The last sentence of the telegram leads one to assume that it was not in any case addressed to the witness. According to my opinion, I think the witness should next be asked whether he knew about this wire and to whom it was addressed.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Perhaps you will tell Dr. Seidl to whom the Ambassador in Madrid was likely to send a telegram on such matters as this?

BOHLE: To the Foreign Office at Berlin.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: And you, at that time, were State Secretary at the Foreign Office of Berlin, were you not?

BOHLE: Quite right, in October 1939.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Beneath his signature is set out the distribution to—it mentions various persons in departments in the Foreign Office in Berlin. Is that so?

BOHLE: Yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: And are you saying now that all of those departments which were asked to submit this matter to you, that they all failed to do so?

BOHLE: No, I do not claim that. They surely would have done that.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Do you remember yourself seeing this telegram before?

BOHLE: I cannot recall it. I would have noticed it for I never heard anything about two secret transmitters in Spain. It would also be quite in order for me to admit it. But I cannot do so if I do not know it. The distribution under Number 3 mentions "State Secretary,” but that does not mean me, but the State Secretary of the Foreign Office, the political one. My designation in the Foreign Office was: Chief A.O.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I can save you all that. I am not suggesting that that “State Secretary” means you; otherwise it would not be asked to be submitted to you. What I want to know is what you or your embassy workers, or both of you working together, wanted with two secret wireless transmitting sets in Spain in October 1939?

Are you still saying that your organization was quite unconcerned in reporting back information of military importance?

BOHLE: Just how do you mean, “reporting back”?

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Are you telling the Tribunal—I want you to be quite clear—are you telling the Tribunal that your organization was not being used for espionage purposes in Spain?

BOHLE: Yes indeed, I am asserting that. A distinction must be made between certain members of the Auslands-Organisation who naturally without my knowledge—I protested against this often enough—were used abroad for such purposes. I had no objection to Germans abroad being utilized in time of war for such tasks, as was the case very frequently with all other countries. However, I did not want members or officials of the Auslands-Organisation to become involved. A distinction must...

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I do not want to stop you at all. I do not want to stop you. Go on if you have anything to say. But, in the interest of time, try and make it as short as possible.

BOHLE: It seems to me there is some confusion between the Auslands-Organisation as an organization and what certain Germans abroad did during the war as their patriotic duty. This seems to me to be the crucial point of the question.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Well, I will not argue about that. We see that your organization took sufficient interest to reproduce accounts of what they were doing in its official book. I just want to show you one thing further.

[_Turning to the President._] Well, I have one further document to put to this witness.

THE PRESIDENT: You may as well go on.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: It is a document which I have just had found. I have not had them copied. The Tribunal will forgive me if I read extracts from them?

[_Turning to the witness._] It is an original document you hold in your hand and it appears to be, does it not, a carbon copy of a letter from...

THE PRESIDENT: Has Dr. Seidl got one?

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Yes, he has one in German.

[_Turning to the witness._] Is that a letter from your Landesgruppenleiter Konradi?

BOHLE: It seems to be a directive from Konradi, but not signed by him.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: If you will look at the end of the letter you will see that it is actually signed “Konradi,” after the usual “Heil Hitler”...

BOHLE: The copy that I have is not signed.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Will you get that copy back? Perhaps these documents...

[_The document was taken from the witness to Lt. Col. Griffith-Jones._]

It is in fact signed “Konradi.” Show it to him.

[_The document was returned to the witness._]

BOHLE: It is not signed by Konradi, but typed in.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I am very much obliged to you. It is my fault for not making myself clear. I told you that we have here a carbon copy. A copy of a letter which was signed and sent by Konradi. That appears to be so, does it not?

BOHLE: That I do not know, for of course I do not know about all the letters written by Konradi.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: You can take it, so far as you are concerned, that that is a German document which has been captured, that it is this bit of paper that you are holding in your hand which was found by Allied troops and that bears a typewritten signature of Konradi, who was your Landesgruppenleiter in Romania; is that correct? You remember that you had a Landesgruppenleiter in Romania?

BOHLE: His name was Konradi.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: And is this a letter of instructions to the Zellenleiter in Constantsa?

BOHLE: Yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: It is dated the 25th of October 1939. Will you read the first paragraph?

“From 9 to 12 October conferences took place with the Supreme
Party functionaries, or their deputies, of the Southeastern and
Southern European groups at the head office of the
Auslands-Organisation.”

Does that mean Berlin?

BOHLE: Yes. Berlin.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: That means your office, does it not?

BOHLE: Yes, in my office, but not in my personal office.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: No, but is it in the office over which you had complete control?

BOHLE: Yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Agreed. I imagine, before we go on, that no orders would be issued from your head office at a conference of that kind which were contrary to your direction, would they?

BOHLE: Not on important things, naturally not.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I am much obliged to you.

“I subsequently received direct instructions from the competent
department of the head office of the Auslands-Organisation.”

So it appears that the direction given at the conference was confirmed in writing.

“During the war, every National Socialist abroad must directly
serve the fatherland, either through propaganda for the German
cause or by counteracting enemy measures.”

Now perhaps you will turn over, or rather, you will miss out—I am reading from copy—the English, the next paragraph, and the next plus one paragraph, and go on to the paragraph commencing:

“As everywhere else it is extremely important to know where the
enemy is and what he is doing...”

I want you to be quite clear about this and keep it in mind. These are directions coming directly from your head office in Berlin.

“It has been ascertained that the I.S. (Intelligence Service)
has attempted, sometimes most successfully, to gain admittance
for seemingly trustworthy persons into the activities of the
Party group and its associate organizations. It is therefore
necessary that you thoroughly investigate not only all those
persons coming into contact with you who are not very well known
to you, and above all you must scrutinize any new persons and
visitors appearing in your immediate vicinity. If possible, let
them be taken in hand by a comrade whose absolute Nazi
convictions are not generally known to the man in the
street....”

I think we can leave the rest of that.

“You are to report everything that comes to your notice, even
though it may at first appear very insignificant. Rumors
suddenly arising also come in this category, however false they
may be.”

Do you remember your members in Romania being told to report everything? Everything they saw?

BOHLE: Yes, of course.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: “An important section of both your work
and that of your comrades’ work must be industrial concerns,
business enterprises, _et cetera_. Not only can you spread your
propaganda very well in this way, but it is precisely in such
concerns that you can easily pick up information concerning
strange visitors. It is known that the enemy espionage
organizations are especially active in industrial circles both
in gathering information and carrying out acts of sabotage.
Members with close connections with shipping and forwarding
companies are particularly suitable for this work. It goes
without saying that you must be meticulous and cautious when
selecting your assistants.”

THE PRESIDENT: Do you have some more to read from this document? If so, we will adjourn now until 2 o’clock.

[_The Tribunal recessed until 1400 hours._]

_Afternoon Session_

MARSHAL: If it please the Tribunal, the Defendant Streicher is absent from this session.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Witness, will you look again at the document we were reading before the Court adjourned. Would you look at the paragraph which commences “as everywhere else it is extremely important to know where the enemy is and what he is doing.” My Lord, I am not absolutely certain that I did not start reading.

THE PRESIDENT: Oh, yes, you had read that and the next one and the one at the top of Page 3 in the English text. At least I think you have. You read the one beginning “An important section.”

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Perhaps I can start the paragraph commencing “An important section.” Have you got that?

BOHLE: Yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: “An important section of both your work
and that of your comrades must be industrial concerns, business
enterprises, _et cetera_. Not only can you spread your
propaganda very well in this way, but it is precisely in such
concerns that you can easily pick up information concerning
strange visitors. It is known that the enemy espionage
organizations are especially active in industrial circles, both
in gathering information and carrying out acts of sabotage.
Comrades with close connections with shipping and forwarding
companies are particularly suitable for this work. Naturally you
must be meticulous and cautious when selecting your assistants.

“In this connection a reference to interstate organizations and
exchange organizations is relevant.”—I particularly want you to
note these next lines:

“It has been proved that these often use harmless activities as
camouflage and are in reality to be regarded as branches of the
Foreign Intelligence Department.”

Witness, doesn’t that exactly describe the way in which the Auslands-Organisation was carrying on its business? Read it again:

“It has been proved that these often use harmless activities as
camouflage and are in reality to be regarded as branches of the
Foreign Intelligence Department.”

Doesn’t that fit in with the directions that this Landesgruppenleiter of yours has been writing to his members in this document?

BOHLE: On the contrary, I find that this is clear proof of the fact that the organizations mentioned here were in a foreign espionage service and not in the German espionage service. My interpretation is the exact opposite of that of the British Prosecutor.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Are you not giving instructions here, or is not your Landesgruppenleiter giving instructions, to carry out counterespionage—the work that is carried on by the intelligence service? Isn’t that what the writer is writing about so far?

BOHLE: The letter, with which I am not personally familiar, apparently instructs Germans abroad to turn in a report whenever they encounter the intelligence service at work. I do not think that any objection can be raised to that in time of war.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Very well. We will not go on arguing about it. I understand that you know nothing about the instructions which are contained in that letter. This is the first you have ever seen or heard of it; is that right?

BOHLE: No, this letter is new to me, and I do not know whether it is true, for there is no original here.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: May I take it then that, of the countries around Germany in which your organization worked, you have no knowledge of the activities that they were carrying out in Belgium? You have no knowledge of the activities that they were carrying out in Norway, none about what they were doing in Spain, and not very much about what they were doing in Romania either; is that correct?

BOHLE: No, that is not correct. Of course I knew of the activity of these groups abroad; but the particular activity that the British Prosecutor wishes to point out as the aim of the Auslands-Organisation is not quite clear to me.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: If you had knowledge of any of their activities—I understand from your evidence that you had none of the activities about which your own Auslands-Organisation Yearbook publishes a story. Both in Norway and Greece the activities were recounted in those two stories. You knew nothing about them at all; is that right?

BOHLE: I did not know about the activity in Norway. I have already testified to that effect. I was very familiar with the activity in Greece which was along perfectly normal lines.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Very well. I want to leave that, and I just want to ask you two questions about another matter. Am I right in saying that the information—and I am not going to argue with you now as to what type of information it was—but the information that your organization sent back, was that passed on to the Defendant Hess?

BOHLE: Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It depended upon the nature of the information. If it was information on foreign policy it was, of course, sent to another office.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: You were in fact acting as a pool of information, were you not? Let me explain myself: You were forwarding information that you received, to the SS?

BOHLE: Sometimes, yes; if not to the SS then probably...

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: To the Foreign Office?

BOHLE: Sometimes also to the Foreign Office.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: And to the Abwehr, were you not?

BOHLE: Very seldom, but it happened occasionally.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: You say very seldom. Did you not have a liaison officer attached to your organization from the Abwehr?

BOHLE: No. I had only one assistant who maintained an unofficial connection with the Abwehr, if the occasion arose.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Perhaps we are talking about the same gentleman. Did you not have a Captain Schmauss attached to your head office in Berlin?

BOHLE: Mr. Schmauss has never been a captain but he was a political leader and honorary SS-leader. In the Army, I believe he was a sergeant. Moreover, he did not come from the Abwehr; he was chief of personnel of the Auslands-Organisation and his function as liaison was purely unofficial.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: You say he was not a liaison officer between your organization and the Abwehr?

BOHLE: No, he was not an officer at all. He was not a member of the Wehrmacht.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I do not want to quibble with you about his rank. Was he, in effect, whatever he was, acting in a capacity of liaison between you and the Abwehr?

BOHLE: Yes, that is correct.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Very well. Now, in addition to the information that Hess obtained through your system of reporting, that is, the Auslands-Organisation, did he also obtain information from those organizations which were dealing with the Volksdeutsche, that is to say, non-German citizens, racial Germans abroad who were not members of your organization, because you allowed only German citizens to become members of your organization. But others—Volksdeutsche, I think you call them—did Hess receive information from other sources about their activities?

BOHLE: I could not say, because I did not discuss it with Hess, and the affairs of the Volksdeutsche were entirely out of my field.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Dr. Karl Haushofer was for some time in 1938 and 1939 president of the VDA, was he not?

BOHLE: I believe so.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Which was an organization dealing with the activities of the Volksdeutsche in foreign countries. Is that correct?

BOHLE: Yes, I believe so. I am not familiar with this field.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: And, as you know, Hess and Karl Haushofer were great friends, were they not?

BOHLE: Yes, that is correct.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Haushofer had been Hess’ pupil at Munich University; did you know that?

BOHLE: It was the other way around.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Do you not know that Hess received information from Haushofer as to the activities of these other organizations?

BOHLE: No, I know nothing about it.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Well, now, I do not want to catch you out. Is that your answer? Are you being honest to this Tribunal?

BOHLE: No. I wanted to add that the Deputy of the Führer very painstakingly separated the “Auslandsdeutsche,” that is, citizens of the Reich who worked abroad, and the “Volksdeutsche,” and with equal care he made certain that I should have nothing to do with the question of Volksdeutsche. Therefore I knew nothing of these matters.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Hess as Deputy to the Führer was in fact in charge of all matters concerning Germanism abroad; was he not?

BOHLE: Yes, that is so, because he was born abroad. However, to my knowledge, he did not take charge of these matters in his capacity as Deputy to the Führer. I do not believe that there was any connection.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Are you telling the Tribunal that just because he was born in a foreign country he had charge of all matters concerning Germanism abroad?

BOHLE: I believe so, because any other Reichsleiter of the Party might just as well have taken care of these matters. However, I assume that Hess took over these functions simply because he was familiar with foreign countries.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I want to be quite clear. Whatever the reason was, he in fact did have charge of them. That is your evidence?

BOHLE: Yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Now, I just want to remind you of a passage in your interrogation in this building on the 9th of November. Do you remember that you were interrogated on the 9th...

BOHLE: [_Interposing._]: September?

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: On 9 November last.

BOHLE: November, yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: You were interrogated by a Lieutenant Martin, the afternoon of that day.

BOHLE: By Lieutenant Martin, yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Let me read a short extract from the transcript of that interrogation and ask you whether, in fact, it is correct. You were being asked about the information which came back through the Auslands-Organisation.

“Question: ‘He would have to rely on you for his information on
matters of that kind?’

“Answer: ‘Not entirely; I think Hess had a great many
connections in Hamburg through which he obtained information
which he did not relay to me.’

“Question: ‘What were his connections in Hamburg?’

“Answer: ‘The shipping companies.’

“Question: ‘Rather like your Landesgruppenleiter instructions in
Romania?’

“Answer: ‘I think he knew a number of people there. I have
always been convinced that he knew them.’

“Question: ‘Is that Helferich?’

“Answer: ‘Helferich was one, but then there were many people
from whom he received information. I believe from Professor
Haushofer, his old teacher, with whom he was very friendly. But
he always made it a point not to inform us of anything that
concerned the Volksdeutsche; he said, “It is not your affair at
all.”’”

Is that correct?

BOHLE: That is quite correct, yes.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: And as you have said it there, is that a correct description of the position that Hess was in with regard to information from abroad, from agents abroad? Does that correctly state the facts as they were?

BOHLE: So far as I can see, it is probably correct. I myself can judge only to the extent to which the reports concerned the Auslands-Organisation. About the others I can make only a guess; I cannot give definite information, because I was not acquainted with them.

LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I have no further questions. Perhaps I might get the exhibits in order, the ones that I have referred to.

The Yearbook of the Auslands-Organisation from which the stories about Norway and Greece came, becomes Exhibit GB-284. The two translations that you have are numbered Documents M-153 and M-156, both of which become Exhibit GB-284.

The secret wireless telegram, which was Document Number M-158, becomes Exhibit GB-285; and the letter from Landesgruppenleiter Konradi, which was Document Number 3796-PS, becomes Exhibit GB-286.

BOHLE: May I add something to a point which was brought up by the British cross-examination?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes.

BOHLE: May I begin?

THE PRESIDENT: You may give a short explanation. You are not here to make a speech.

BOHLE: No, I do not want to make a speech. I merely wish to say the following on the question of secret transmitters which was brought up this morning: Although I am not familiar with the technique of these secret transmitters, I assume that a secret transmitter would be of use in a foreign country only if there were a receiving set in Berlin.

I am quite certain that to my knowledge there was never such a receiving set, either in my office in Berlin or in any other office of the Auslands-Organisation, and therefore I may assume that such a receiving set did not exist.

COLONEL JOHN HARLAN AMEN (Associate Trial Counsel for the United States): Do you recall being interrogated on 11 September 1945, by Colonel Brundage?

BOHLE: Yes.

COL. AMEN: I want to read you a few questions and answers from your interrogation and ask you whether you recall being asked those questions and having made those answers:

“Question: ‘Now, when you started, your immediate superior was
who?’

“Answer: ‘Rudolf Hess, until 1941 when he left for England.’

“Question: ‘Who succeeded him?’

“Answer: ‘Martin Bormann. Martin Bormann automatically succeeded
Hess, but he did not really fill Hess’ position, because Hess
had been born abroad in Egypt, while Martin Bormann understood
nothing about foreign affairs. He paid no attention to them at
all, but of course, he was my superior.’

“Question: ‘But he was nominally your chief?’

“Answer: ‘He was technically my chief, but he gave me no orders,
directives or similar instructions, because he did not
understand anything about these things.’

“Question: ‘So that everything that was done in your office, you
would say you were responsible for?’

“Answer: ‘Absolutely.’

“Question: ‘And you are willing to accept the responsibility for
that?’

“Answers ‘Naturally.’”

Do you remember being asked those questions and having made those answers?

BOHLE: That is absolutely correct.

COL. AMEN: And were those answers true when you made them?

BOHLE: Absolutely true.

COL. AMEN: And are they still true today?

BOHLE: They are still true.

COL. AMEN: So that you accept responsibility for everything which your office was conducting, is that true?

BOHLE: Yes, that is correct.

COL. AMEN: Who was Von Strempel?

BOHLE: Von Strempel was, I believe, counsellor to a secretary of a legation (Gesandtschaftsrat) in the foreign office, but I do not know him very well.

COL. AMEN: Was he not the first secretary of the German Embassy in the United States from 1938 until Pearl Harbor?

BOHLE: I cannot say definitely. I knew him only slightly and had absolutely no contact with him.

COL. AMEN: Well, he was interrogated with respect to the support of the German-American Bund by the Auslands-Organisation prior to 1938, and I want to read you just one or two questions and answers which he made and ask you whether they conform to your understanding of the facts. Do you understand?

BOHLE: Yes.

COL. AMEN: “Question: ‘Was the German-American Bund supported by
the Auslands-Organisation?’

“Answer: ‘I am positive that it was connected with the foreign
section of the Party. For example, the Bund received
instructions from the Party on how to build up their political
organization, how, where, and when to hold mass meetings and how
to handle their propaganda. Personally, I do not know whether it
received financial support.’”

Does that conform with your understanding of the facts?

BOHLE: No, that is a completely false representation. The Auslands-Organisation gave no financial support whatever and had no connection with the German-American Bund. I have stated that clearly in many interrogations here in Nuremberg, and have signed an affidavit to that effect.

COL. AMEN: I know you have. So that if Von Strempel has sworn that that is a fact, your testimony is that he was not telling the truth. Is that correct?

BOHLE: I am of the opinion that if Von Strempel was legation secretary, or secretary of another office, he could not have known of the matter and he therefore testified about something which was not quite clear to him. In any event, what he said is not true.

COL. AMEN: Are you familiar with the fact that in 1938 an order was issued prohibiting members of the German embassies and consulates to continue relations or connections with the Bund?

BOHLE: It was a general order for German citizens abroad to resign from the Bund if they were members. But as far as I know, that order was issued some years previously about 1935 or 1936, by the Deputy of the Führer upon my request.

DR. SEIDL: I object to this question; it has no connection with the evidence for which the witness Bohle was called. During his direct examination he was not questioned on any subject which has the slightest relation to the question of the activity of the German-American Bund. I do not believe that this form of interrogation is designed to test the witness, as it has not the slightest bearing on the subject.

COL. AMEN: It seems to me to have a very direct bearing on whether or not this organization was engaged in espionage work abroad and within the United States.

THE PRESIDENT: Certainly; in the opinion of the Tribunal the questions are perfectly proper.

COL. AMEN: Is it not a fact that in spite of that order the foreign section of the Nazi Party nevertheless continued to support the Bund?

BOHLE: No, I was not aware of that and I consider it to be impossible.

COL. AMEN: Now I would like to read you one or two further extracts from the interrogation of Strempel and ask you whether these statements conform with your knowledge of the facts:

“Question: ‘Did the foreign section of the Party continue to
support the Bund after the order you mentioned before was
issued?’

“Answer: ‘I am sure that Mr. Draeger, consul in New York City
and representative of the foreign section of the Party, did
continue to have relations with Bund officials.’”

Does that conform with your recollection of the facts?

BOHLE: No. In my opinion, that does not correspond to the facts. Naturally, I cannot say whether the consul, Dr. Draeger, maintained his contacts against my order, but there was an imperative order to withdraw completely from the Bund, because from the very beginning I objected strenuously to the activities of the Bund and was supported in my objections by the Deputy of the Führer.

COL. AMEN: You were acquainted with Draeger, were you not?

BOHLE: Yes.

COL. AMEN: What was his position in the United States, insofar as your organization was concerned?

BOHLE: He was a liaison man (Vertrauensmann) of the Auslands-Organisation for the individual Party members in the United States.

COL. AMEN: He was what was known as a confidential agent, was he not?

BOHLE: No, he was not, naturally, but we had...

COL. AMEN: And as a matter of fact, you called him a “confidential agent” in your interrogation, did you not?

BOHLE: No. I called him a “Vertrauensmann,” and this was translated into “confidence man.” I did...

COL. AMEN: Well, I will accept that correction. He was a confidence man for your organization in the United States. Correct?

BOHLE: Correct, yes, that is true.

COL. AMEN: And in addition to him there were other confidence men of your organization in the United States? Correct?

BOHLE: Yes, correct.

COL. AMEN: Will you tell the Tribunal what their names were and where they were located?

BOHLE: One was Wiedemann, consul general in San Francisco. There was also Consul Dr. Gissling in Los Angeles and Consul Von Spiegel in New Orleans I believe, but I do not know; perhaps it was Boston. It was one of the two. I believe these are all.

COL. AMEN: And each of those individuals made reports from time to time which were forwarded to you through Draeger. Is that not a fact?

BOHLE: No, they made no reports to me. I cannot recall that I ever saw a report from Wiedemann, Spiegel, or Gissling. That was not their job.

COL. AMEN: Draeger made the reports to you, did he not?

BOHLE: Draeger made the reports to the Auslands-Organisation in Berlin or to me personally. Mostly to my office.

COL. AMEN: And contained in those reports were various items of information collected by other confidential agents? Isn’t that correct?

BOHLE: I do not know, because I am not familiar with these reports and I cannot say whether there was anything to report. We had no Party organization in the United States, because it had been dissolved by Rudolf Hess in April 1933.

COL. AMEN: So you say; but you nevertheless had an individual in Germany whose duty it was to read and pass upon these reports from Draeger as they came in. Is that not a fact?

BOHLE: So far as I know, and I believe my information is correct; the reports that we received were of a purely technical nature. We merely had few Party members in the United States whose card index and membership fees had to be looked after in order to preserve their privileges as Party members. Political activity in the United States was forbidden and did not actually exist.

COL. AMEN: But I am suggesting to you that in spite of the order the activities of your organization nevertheless continued. Now, is it not a fact that there was an individual in your organization in Germany who received these reports from the United States regularly?

BOHLE: It was my assistant, Mr. Grothe, who...

COL. AMEN: I beg your pardon?

BOHLE: It was my assistant, Mr. Grothe.

COL. AMEN: Correct. Why didn’t you tell me that before when I asked you about the individual who read these reports from the United States as they came in?

BOHLE: Please repeat the question. I did not fully understand it.

COL. AMEN: Well, I will withdraw that question. After Grothe received these reports from the United States regularly, to whom did he report the substance of those reports?

BOHLE: So far as I know, he usually kept them, because they contained nothing of interest and he himself was not in a position to use them. Mr. Grothe had an honorary position with us because of his advanced age and took over this branch of the office because it was of no importance at all in the Auslands-Organisation.

COL. AMEN: So that you were in no position to know what was contained in those reports? Is that correct?

BOHLE: That is for the most part correct.

COL. AMEN: So you do not know whether they were important or not and you do not know whether they contained information relative to espionage matters or not. Is that correct?

BOHLE: I am sure that if they had contained such information, Grothe would have submitted them to me.

COL. AMEN: Well, outside of that, you have no knowledge of it whatsoever. Is that correct?

BOHLE: That is correct.

COL. AMEN: Now, let me just read you one or two more excerpts from the interrogation of Von Strempel:

“Question: ‘These relationships seem to have violated the order
you mentioned before. Did you report these violations to the
Foreign Office?’

“Answer: ‘Yes, several times. In reports that I drafted for
Thomsen when I was in the Embassy, we called the attention of
Berlin to the fact that this relationship to the Bund was very
detrimental... and stated that the continued support of the Bund
by the foreign section of the Party was harming diplomatic
relations with the United States.’

“Question: ‘What action was taken in Berlin to halt the
activities of which you complained?’

“Answer: ‘I know of no action.’”

Does that conform to your knowledge of the facts?

BOHLE: I have not the slightest idea of this report by Herr Von Thomsen. This is the first time that I have heard of protests from the Embassy in Washington regarding prohibited connections between Dr. Draeger and the Bund.

COL. AMEN: You know who Thomsen was, do you not?

BOHLE: Thomsen was Chargé d’Affaires in Washington.

COL. AMEN: And you know that from time to time various officials of the Bund came over here and had conferences with representatives of your organization and of the Führer, do you not?

BOHLE: I have heard that they visited the Führer but they did not visit me and we had no conferences of any description.

COL. AMEN: I did not say with you. I said with representatives of your office; perhaps your friend, Mr. Grothe?

BOHLE: That might be possible but I cannot say definitely because he did not report to me on this matter. They could not have discussed any official matters with Grothe, because he knew very well that I completely repudiated the activities of the German Volksbund in America.

COL. AMEN: In any event, however, you accept responsibility for everything which was done in your organization. Correct?

BOHLE: Naturally.

THE PRESIDENT: Do either of the other Chief Prosecutors wish to cross-examine? [_There was no response._] Then, Dr. Seidl, you can re-examine if you wish.

DR. SEIDL: Witness, you have already answered a question that I intended to ask you, that is, that there was no secret transmitter in Germany which would have been in a position to broadcast secret communications to foreign countries. I ask you now, did you yourself have a transmitter in Germany?

BOHLE: I myself had no transmitter.

DR. SEIDL: Did the Auslands-Organisation have such a transmitter?

BOHLE: I consider that to be absolutely impossible; if there had been one, I would have known of it. I never saw one.

DR. SEIDL: Is it correct that in order to communicate with Germans overseas by radio you yourself did not use code on the German network?

BOHLE: That is correct.

DR. SEIDL: You stated previously that the Deputy of the Führer, Hess, was your immediate superior?

BOHLE: Yes.

DR. SEIDL: Were the directives given to you by the Deputy of the Führer of a general nature, or did he go into the details of the work of the Auslands-Organisation?

BOHLE: The Deputy of the Führer gave only general directives and left all the details to me because I had his complete confidence. In his general directives he impressed upon me repeatedly in the sharpest terms the fact that it was my duty to avoid any measures by the Auslands-Organisation that might be detrimental to foreign relations.

DR. SEIDL: I have no further questions.

THE PRESIDENT: The witness can retire.

[_The witness left the stand._]

DR. SEIDL: Your Honors, before I go on to my next witness—that is the witness Strölin—I should like to submit the suggestion or rather the application to the Tribunal that the affidavit of the witness Gaus be handled in the same way as the interrogation of the witness Bohle. Gaus has already been admitted as a witness for another defendant. However, the Defense Counsel for the other defendant waived his right to call this witness. The situation is the same as it was in the case of Bohle; therefore it would be preferable, in my opinion, to hear the witness Gaus now and to read his sworn statement to him during his examination as has been done in other cases, for instance in the case of Blaha.

THE PRESIDENT: Has the affidavit been translated yet and submitted in the various languages to the Chief Prosecutors?

DR. SEIDL: I do not know whether the translation is complete. At any rate, this noon I submitted six copies of the affidavit to the Translation Division.

THE PRESIDENT: Can you tell me, Sir David or Colonel Pokrovsky?

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, I have not seen this affidavit, and, My Lord, with regard to the last one, we got it hurriedly translated into English, but it was only by the kindness of my Soviet colleagues, who allowed the matter to go on without a Russian translation and left it to my delegation to deal with, that the matter went on. Otherwise, my Soviet colleagues would have asked the Tribunal to have it put back.

It is very difficult when these affidavits are sought to be put in at the last minute without having given us a chance of seeing them.

THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps Colonel Pokrovsky could tell me whether he has seen this affidavit or had it translated yet.

COLONEL Y. V. POKROVSKY (Deputy Chief Prosecutor for the U.S.S.R.): Members of the Tribunal, I fully share the viewpoint of Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe. It appears to me absolutely unacceptable to have this document presented immediately to the Tribunal.

If I understood Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe correctly, he did not receive this affidavit. The Soviet delegation is in the same position. Besides, I would like to remind you that the question of this witness has already been discussed, that it has been definitely solved, and it seems to me there are no grounds for a further revision of this question.

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Seidl, the Tribunal considers that the course which must be taken is that that affidavit must be translated and submitted to the Tribunal for their consideration, for this witness was allowed to the Defendant Ribbentrop, I think, and then he withdrew his application for the witness. You have not applied for the witness Gaus, and I would point out to you and to the other counsel for the defendants that it is very inconvenient that documents of this sort—after all the question of witnesses and documents has been thoroughly gone into by the Tribunal—should be presented at the last moment and without any translation whatever. But we will not go into it now, and it must be translated and submitted to the Tribunal in the three languages.

DR. SEIDL: Perhaps I might make one short remark in regard to the last point. Up to now I was always under the impression that a formal application to call a witness would not be necessary in the case of a witness who has already been admitted by the Tribunal for another defendant. That was undoubtedly so in the case of Gaus who was named as a witness for the Defendant Von Ribbentrop. Consequently I had no reason to make a formal application, since I would have the opportunity to interrogate the witness in cross-examination anyhow.

I have just been informed by counsel for the Defendant Von Ribbentrop that, as his representative said last Saturday, he will forego calling the witness Gaus, and now I, in turn, apply to call Ambassador Dr. Gaus as witness regarding the statements in his sworn affidavit.

THE PRESIDENT: I do not know what you mean by saying you call him. You can apply to call him if you like, but you do not call him until you apply.

DR. SEIDL: Yes, Sir.

THE PRESIDENT: When we have seen this document, we will determine the question.