Chapter M: HERZOG: I shall continue reading

“The Central German Labor Office in Paris, that is, the
representative of the Plenipotentiary General and his office,
will therefore have in the whole of France a reliable apparatus
which will make it a great deal easier for him to solve his
problems in France, in spite of any possible or even real
passive resistance on the part of the higher or lower French
bureaucracy.”

I skip two lines.

“I have, therefore, charged the presidents or the provisional
chiefs of the newly formed Gau labor offices to set up a
corresponding organization in the _départements_ which they are
sponsoring; and I request you, in your capacity as my
Plenipotentiary for the Allocation of Labor, in agreement with
Reichsleiter Bormann, to promote and give your fullest support
to the new task allotted to your Gau labor office. The president
or the provisional chief of your Gau labor office is instructed
to keep you informed of all details concerning the carrying out
of these measures.”

Are not these measures an attempt to subordinate French territory to German territory as far as the organization of labor is concerned?

SAUCKEL: Yes. But I should like to ask you and the High Tribunal to allow me to say the following in explanation: On the first page, Paragraph 1—I quote from the third line—it says, “...with the full consent of the Führer I am to take far-reaching and urgent measures in France in negotiation with the head of the French Government and the competent”—now comes the important part—“German authorities;”—that is, the military commander’s department, in which these labor authorities and this delegate were incorporated and to whom they were subordinate.

And on Page 4, I should like to read about the special purpose of this system of sponsorship which should have nothing unfriendly about it. I read from Page 4 in the German text, under the letter “a”:

“Prejudice, suspicion, lack of care, failure to redress and look
into complaints”—that is, complaints by the workers—“which are
prejudicial to the employment of manpower in Germany, all these
things can be very largely eliminated by the relations between
the Gau and its sponsored _département_.”

Now I read under letter “b”:

“Every French worker in such a _département_ knows exactly where
and under what conditions he will have to work in Germany.
German propaganda and explanatory material will tell him about
the locality in which he will have to work and about all matters
which are of interest to him.”

And that was the purpose of that arrangement. It was something I wanted to do for the French workers, besides looking after German interests.

M. HERZOG: Please answer me “yes” or “no.” Was this arrangement an attempt to bring about a joint administration between the French _départements_ and the German Gaue as far as the employment of labor was concerned? Answer me “yes” or “no.”

SAUCKEL: No. I should like to give an explanation to this negative answer. The purpose of this arrangement was to clear up unsolved problems between the French Government, between the French _départements_, between French industrialists and factories, on the one hand, and the administrative offices in Germany where the French workers were to be employed. That was the real purpose—to settle complaints and clear away mistrust.

THE PRESIDENT: We will adjourn now.

[_A recess was taken._]

M. HERZOG: Defendant, is it true that your Codefendant Göring placed under your control all the organizations of the Four Year Plan which were concerned with the recruiting of labor?

SAUCKEL: The various organizations of the Four Year Plan which had to do with manpower were dissolved. Departments 3 and 5 of the Reich Ministry of Labor continued to deal exclusively with these matters.

M. HERZOG: Is it true that the powers of the Reich Minister of Labor concerning the employment of labor were transferred to you and that as a result of this transfer you had powers to issue regulations and laws?

SAUCKEL: Only insofar as the work of Departments 3 and 5 were connected with my own task. Otherwise the functions of the Reich Ministry of Labor remained independent under the Reich Minister of Labor.

M. HERZOG: But within these departments you exercised the powers of the Reich Minister of Labor after your appointment as Plenipotentiary General for the Allocation of Labor?

SAUCKEL: Within my office as Plenipotentiary General for the Allocation of Labor. But I must emphasize that these departments were not under me; they were merely at my disposal. Great importance was attached to this difference at the time. The departments continued to work independently within the whole framework of the Ministry of Labor.

M. HERZOG: But as a result of this situation you exerted administrative autonomy in matters concerning labor?

SAUCKEL: Not an autonomy; it was done by vote. I could not issue decrees, but could only give instructions. In every case I had to get the agreement of the other administrative authorities and Reich ministries, and the agreement of the Führer or of my superior office.

M. HERZOG: Did you not have carte blanche from the Führer for the recruiting and the utilization of labor?

SAUCKEL: Not for recruiting and utilization, but for guiding and directing. If I may express it in this way, it was never a case of the workers’ agent—that is, of course, what allocation of labor really means—employing these workers himself. The firms employed the workers, not the agent.

M. HERZOG: For the recruiting of labor you had carte blanche from the Führer. Is that not true?

SAUCKEL: Not absolutely, and only after there had been a vote and after the agreement of the regional authorities concerned had been obtained, especially in the case of foreign countries. I never recruited workers in France without the express agreement of the French Government and with their collaboration. The French administration was used here.