Chapter XVIII: Book 4: , Page 28 of the English book, and just look at Captain (9)

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No, that is not correct. Raeder gave me all the files of the legal proceedings against Generaloberst Von Fritsch sometime in the beginning of 1939 to be kept in the safe. At that time he told me how the course of the proceedings had impressed him and also of the fact that he had made Generaloberst Von Fritsch the offer of a complete reinstatement, going so far as to have him reinstated in his previous office. Von Fritsch thanked him for that and told him personally that he would never assume his former office again, that he would not even consider returning after what had happened, for which reason he was requesting Raeder not to make any efforts in this direction.

Besides, Fritsch and Raeder were on good personal terms—to say that they were friends is going perhaps too far, but I have often seen Fritsch at Raeder’s house even after his dismissal.

DR. SIEMERS: Thank you, Admiral.

Mr. President, I have no further questions.

THE PRESIDENT: Does any other member of the defendants’ counsel want to ask any questions?

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: Admiral Schulte-Mönting, you just spoke about the correct treatment of prisoners in connection with a U-boat attack on the _Tirpitz_. Do you mean by that the attack in November 1943 in the Alta Fjord?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes, that is the one I mean.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: Was it a two-man U-boat?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Whether it was a two-man or three-man U-boat, I do not know, but it was a midget U-boat. Several U-boats attacked simultaneously. Some of them were sunk, and the commander who successfully, I believe, placed his magnetic mine was taken prisoner.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: And this commander was treated according to the Geneva convention?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Absolutely.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: Thank you.

THE PRESIDENT: Does the Prosecution wish to cross-examine?

MAJOR JONES: Witness, I want to ask you first about the _Athenia_ episode. I take it you agree that the article in the _Völkischer Beobachter_ was thoroughly dishonorable, lying, and discreditable.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I heard nothing at all in German.

MAJOR JONES: I will repeat my question. With regard to the _Athenia_—do you hear me now?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes.

MAJOR JONES: With regard to the _Völkischer Beobachter_ article on the _Athenia_, do you agree that it was a thoroughly dishonorable publication?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes, I agree that it was a dishonorable publication, untrue and dishonorable.

MAJOR JONES: Perhaps if you keep your headphones on—I have a number of questions to ask you, I am afraid—it might be more convenient for the work we have to do.

And you say that the Defendant Raeder thought it was dishonorable?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes, he did as well.

MAJOR JONES: What action did he take to manifest his displeasure?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: In this case he valued the interests of the State more than a newspaper article. The interests of the State required that in any event all complications with the United States were to be avoided.

MAJOR JONES: That appears to be a characteristic on the part of Raeder that runs throughout the history from 1928 to 1943, that throughout he put what he thought were the interests of the Nazi State before conditions of morality, honor, and public decency, is that not so?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: That I do not believe. I believe that in this he acted consistently as a good patriot would act.

MAJOR JONES: You see, with regard to the invasion of Russia, for example, you said to the Tribunal that on both moral and strategic grounds, Raeder was against the invasion of Russia. Why did he not resign?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: By way of reply I must mention first Hitler’s answer to Raeder’s statements against a war with Russia. This answer was to the effect that he saw no possibility of avoiding a conflict for the following reasons:

First, because of the personal impression which he, Hitler, had received from Molotov’s visit, which had taken place in the meantime. By “in the meantime” I mean between the directive and the carrying through of the directive.

Secondly, the fact that allegedly the economic negotiations had not only been dragged out by the Russians but, as Hitler expressed it, had been conducted with blackmail methods.

Thirdly, as he had been informed by the German General Staff. Russian troop deployment had taken on such threatening proportions that he, Hitler, could not wait for the first blow from the other side because of the air threat to Brandenburg and the capital and to the Silesian industry. Raeder then, of course, had to realize that he could not refute these arguments or prove the opposite.

MAJOR JONES: You are not suggesting that you thought that the war between Germany and Russia was a defensive war so far as Germany was concerned, are you?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No, we were of the opinion that the deployment of troops on both sides had reached such an extreme point that it would not take long for the storm to burst, and that from the military point of view anyone who sees that a conflict is inevitable, naturally likes to have the advantages which result from dealing the first blow.

MAJOR JONES: The invasion of Russia was a brutal aggression on the part of Nazi Germany, you admit that now, do you not?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes, I do admit that.

MAJOR JONES: I want you to turn your mind for a moment, if you will, to Document L-79, which is in the British Document Book 10, Page 74. Those are the minutes of the Hitler conference on 23 May 1939 which you discussed in your evidence-in-chief this morning. I take it that you have read those minutes, Witness?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: May I look at them now? I have never seen these minutes before. If I were to be asked about them, I would first have to read them in toto.

MAJOR JONES: Well, you need not trouble to do that, Witness. You gave evidence this morning as to Raeder’s discussion with you about this conference. Did Raeder tell you that Hitler had said on 23 May 1939, for instance:

“There is no question of sparing Poland, and we are left with
the decision to attack Poland at the first suitable opportunity.
We cannot expect a repetition of the Czechoslovakian affair.
There will be war.”

Then further, Page 76 of the report:

“The Führer doubts the possibility of a peaceful settlement with
England. We must prepare ourselves for the conflict... England
is therefore our enemy, and the conflict with England will be a
life and death struggle.”

And then the next paragraph but one:

“The Dutch and Belgian air bases must be occupied by armed
force. Declarations of neutrality must be ignored.”

Now, I am suggesting to you that those statements of Hitler’s represented Hitler’s considered policy, and that that policy was in fact carried out in the field of action. Is that not so?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: First of all, I must correct a mistake. I thought that you had shown me a record on Russia and not the one on Poland. I saw it in different writing, and I thought it was another record. If it is the same record which I mentioned this morning, then I must state again that Raeder did not agree with the belligerent wording of these minutes as written down by Schmundt.

MAJOR JONES: Just one moment, Witness, if you please. I have read out certain extracts from that document, which I take it that you heard interpreted. Do you agree with me that those extracts represented Hitler’s considered policy at the time and that that policy was in fact carried out in the field of action?

If you keep your headphones on—I know it is difficult. Just move them back if you wish to talk. Now, see if you can answer my question.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I should like to remark in this connection that Hitler in his speeches pursued a certain purpose. In preparations for war he saw a means of political pressure, and in the phrase “war of nerves” (which was not used in Germany only, but went everywhere through the ether far beyond Europe’s boundaries) he tried to find a means of preventing war as well as a means of exerting pressure. This document itself contains contradictions which lead to the conclusion that he himself could not seriously have thought that a war would develop. I can prove this by saying, for example, that he states that the General Staff or the general staffs are not to concern themselves with this question; but toward the end he says that all the branches of the Wehrmacht must get together to study the problem. He says that a war with Poland must in no event result in war with England; politics must see to that. But in the next paragraph one reads: “But if a war actually does arise, I shall deal short sharp blows for a quick decision.” In the next paragraph it says again, “But I need 10 to 15 years to prepare,” and in the concluding paragraph it says: “The construction program of the Navy will in no wise be changed.”

If, therefore, Hitler at that time had really been serious in his speech, that is, that an armed conflict with Poland would result shortly, then he would not have exclaimed first that we would have time until 1943 and, secondly, that there were to be no changes as far as the Navy was concerned. Rather he would have said to Raeder, privately at least: “In all haste prepare a strong U-boat program because I do not know what course events will take.”

MAJOR JONES: But it is a fact that at about this time, the Fall Weiss operation was being prepared to the very last detail, was it not? That is the operation against Poland.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: The operation was prepared to such a stage that when it was canceled at the last minute we thought that we would not be able to reach our forces at sea by wireless. We considered this an extreme policy of exerting pressure in the form of a war of nerves. Since at the last minute everything was canceled we believed without doubt that it was only a means of pressure and not an entry into war. Not until we heard the cannons were we convinced that the war was no longer to be prevented. I personally believe...

MAJOR JONES: If you would shorten your answers as best you can, it would be very convenient.

I want to go from Poland to Norway. The first conference of the Defendant Raeder with regard to Norway took place on 10 October, you have told us. I want you to hear the record of that conference, which is found in Admiral Assmann’s headline diary. It is dated 10 October 1939:

“The Commander-in-Chief of the Navy states conquering the
Belgian coast no advantage for U-boat warfare; refers to value
of Norwegian bases.”

I suggest to you that the interests of the German Navy in Norway from the point of view of requiring submarine bases was manifesting itself at that time; is that not so?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: May I look at this document first? It is unknown to me.

MAJOR JONES: You shall see the original diary, if you want to reassure yourself that I am reading it correctly.

[_The document was handed to the witness._]

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: In this sentence, I do not see any belligerent intentions. It says expressly that he attaches importance to the winning of Norwegian bases.

MAJOR JONES: That is all I am putting to you at the moment. And do you know that on 3 October the Defendant Raeder was sending out a questionnaire upon the possibility of extending the operational base to the north, and upon the bases that it would be desirable for German power to acquire?

I am referring to Document C-122, My Lord. The document C-122 is in Document Book 10a at Page 91.

If you will look at that document, Witness, you will see in the second sentence:

“It must be ascertained whether it is possible to gain bases in
Norway with the combined pressure of Russia and Germany, with
the aim of improving fundamentally our strategic and operational
position. The following questions are to be examined...”

And then there follow these questions:

“What places in Norway can be considered as bases?

“Can bases be gained by military force against Norway’s will, if
it is impossible to achieve this without fighting?

“What are the possibilities of defense after the occupation?

“Will the harbors have to be developed completely as bases, or
do they possibly have decisive advantages simply as supply
centers? (The Commander of U-boats considers such harbors
extremely useful as equipment and supply bases for Atlantic
U-boats on temporary stops.)”

And then finally:

“What decisive advantages would there be for the conduct of the
war at sea in gaining a base in North Denmark, for instance,
Skagen?”

Now, I suggest to you that those documents are the clue to the German invasion of Norway. Do you not agree with that?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No, I do not see any aggressive intentions in these purely operational plans and considerations when thinking of what bases might come into consideration for the conduct of the war. This morning I said that, to the best of my knowledge, Generaladmiral Carls as early as September sent a letter to this effect to Raeder in which he expressed his concern and stated his strategical ideas and plans in case of an Allied occupation of Norway.

MAJOR JONES: The source of the information which the Defendant Raeder was receiving you discussed this morning, but one source that you did not give wets the Norwegian traitor Quisling. The relations between the Defendant Raeder and him were very close, were they not?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: There was no contact at all between Raeder and Quisling until December 1939; then Raeder met Quisling for the first time in his life and never saw him again.

MAJOR JONES: But after December Quisling’s agent Hagelin was a very frequent visitor of the Defendant Raeder, was he not?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I do not believe that Hagelin ever went to Raeder before Quisling’s visit, unless I am very mistaken. I think he visited Raeder for the first time when he accompanied Quisling.

MAJOR JONES: Yes, but thereafter Raeder was in very close touch with the Quisling movement, the Quisling treachery, was he not?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No. Raeder had nothing at all to do with the Quisling movement.

MAJOR JONES: Do you know a man, Erich Giese, Walter Georg Erich Giese, who was an administrative employee of the adjutancy of the supreme commander of the Navy in Berlin?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I did not quite catch the name.

MAJOR JONES: Giese, G-i-e-s-e. He was a—part of his duties were to receive the visitors of the supreme commander. He was an assistant of the supreme commander’s adjutant and he was dismissed from his post in April 1942. And no doubt you recollect the man.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Will you please tell me the name again? Although it was spelled to me I did not catch it. Is this a Norwegian?

MAJOR JONES: This is a German subject, an employee of the supreme command of the Navy. Part of his duties were to receive all the supreme commander’s visitors, to accept applications for interviews, and draw up the list of callers for the supreme commander. Now you are looking at an affidavit from this man, Document D-722, to be Exhibit GB-479.

THE PRESIDENT: Has the witness answered the question yet?

MAJOR JONES: Not yet, My Lord.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Now I have the name. The man of whom you are talking was in the reception room of the adjutant’s office. It was not up to this man, who was to be admitted to the Admiral; that was up to me. I asked the callers for what reason they had come. Mr. Hagelin did not visit Raeder before Quisling’s visit, that is, not before December 1939.

MAJOR JONES: I am not suggesting that but what I am suggesting is that after December 1939 there was a very close link between Raeder and the Quisling movement. I just read out to you this extract from the affidavit of this man. From Page 3, My Lord, of the English text:

“I can state the following about the preparations which led up
to the action against Denmark and Norway: An appointment with
the Commander-in-Chief was frequently made for a Mr. Hagelin and
another gentleman, whose name I cannot recall at present, by a
party official of Rosenberg’s Foreign Political Office; as a
rule they were received immediately. I also had received
instructions that if a Mr. Hagelin should announce himself
personally, I should always take him to the Commander-in-Chief
at once. Shortly afterwards I learned from the minute book and
from conversations in my room that he was a Norwegian
confidential agent. The gentleman from the Foreign Political
Office who frequently accompanied him and whose name I do not
remember at the moment also conversed with me and confided in
me, so that I learned about the Raeder-Rosenberg discussions and
about the preparations for the Norway campaign. According to all
I heard I can say that the idea of this undertaking emanated
from Raeder and met with Hitler’s heartiest approval. The whole
enterprise was disguised by the pretense of an enterprise
against Holland and England. One day Quisling, too, was
announced at the Commander-in-Chief’s by Hagelin and was
received immediately. Korvettenkapitän Schreiber of the Naval
Reserve, who was later naval attaché in Oslo and knew the
conditions in Norway very well, also played a role in all these
negotiations. He collaborated with the Quisling party and its
agents in Oslo.”

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: It is not true that Mr. Hagelin was received by Admiral Raeder. Herr Giese cannot possibly have any information about that because he was stationed two rooms away. If he had perhaps noted down that he was received by me, that would in a certain sense be correct. The fact is that at the time, after the Quisling-Hagelin visit, I had said that if he were to pass through Berlin again and he had any naval political information in this connection, I should like him to make this information available to me.

MAJOR JONES: Are you saying that Defendant Raeder never met Hagelin?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: He did not meet him before Quisling’s visit in December. Later he did not receive him any more.

MAJOR JONES: But he in fact received Hagelin and took him to Hitler on 14 December 1939, did he not?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: He was accompanied by Quisling, that is correct. But he did not have any special discussion with Raeder alone.

MAJOR JONES: You said—you spoke this morning as to a conference between Quisling and Raeder on 12 December 1939 and suggested that politics were not discussed at that conference.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: By the word “politics” I mean politics in the National Socialistic sense, that is, National Socialistic politics on the Norwegian side and on our side. The matters discussed were only naval political questions.

MAJOR JONES: But I will not go into a discussion of the question of politics with you. I will consider the familiar German definition that politics is a continuation of war by other means. But if you look at the Document C-64 you will see that political problems were discussed on 12 December. You see that is a report of Raeder to Hitler. It is found on Page 31 of the Document Book 10a, in which Raeder writes in Paragraph 2:

“As a result of the Russo-Finnish conflict, anti-German feeling
in Norway is even stronger than hitherto. England’s influence is
very great, especially because of Hambro, the President of the
Storting (a Jew and a friend of Hore-Belisha) who is
all-powerful in Norway just now. Quisling is convinced that
there is an agreement between England and Norway for the
possible occupation of Norway, in which case Sweden would also
stand against Germany. Danger of Norway’s occupation by England
is very great—possibly very shortly. From 11 January 1940 on,
the Storting and thereby the Norwegian Government is
unconstitutional since the Storting, in defiance of the
constitution, has prolonged its term for a year.”

Politics was very much under discussion at that conference, was it not? You have said that the Defendant Raeder was anxious for peace with Norway. Was it for peace with a Norway ruled by the traitor Quisling?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: In reply to your first question I should like to say that in the minutes it says:

“The Commander-in-Chief of the Navy points out that in
connection with such offers we can never know to what extent the
persons involved want to further their own party aims, and to
what extent they are concerned about German interests. Hence
caution is required.”

This entry in the document which you have just presented to me corroborates what I was trying to say, that is, that no party matters or matters depending on agreement along ideological lines were to be settled between Admiral Raeder and Quisling. For this reason I said that Raeder did not discuss politics with him, but merely factual matters. That Quisling, at the time of his introduction, should mention certain things as a sort of preamble is self-evident. But he points out the factor of caution and asks: “What does this man want? Does he want to work with the Party or does he really want to remain aloof?”

MAJOR JONES: At any rate, the Defendant Raeder was preferring the reports of Quisling to the reports of the German Ambassador in Oslo which were entirely different from the reports of the traitor Quisling. That is so, is it not?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I believe that Raeder never saw the reports from the German Ambassador in Oslo. I at any rate do not know these reports.

MAJOR JONES: Now the Tribunal has the documents with regard to that matter. I will not pursue it. I want to ask you next about the relations with the United States of America. When did the German Admiralty first know of Japan’s intention to attack the United States?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I can speak only for Raeder and myself. As far as I know, it was not until the moment of the attack on Pearl Harbor.

MAJOR JONES: But you had received a communication from your German naval attaché at Tokyo before the attack on Pearl Harbor, indicating that an attack against the United States was pending, had you not?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Pearl Harbor? No.

MAJOR JONES: But against the United States forces. Just look at the Document D-872, which will be Exhibit GB-480. You see that those are extracts from the war diary of the German naval attaché in Tokyo. The first entry is dated 3 December 1941:

“1800 hours. The naval attaché extended an invitation to several
officers of the Japanese Naval Ministry. It transpires from the
conversation that the negotiations in Washington must be
regarded as having broken down completely and that, quite
obviously, the beginning of actions to the south by the Japanese
Armed Forces is to be expected in the near future.”

And then on 6 December 1941:

“Conversation with Fregattenkapitän Shiba.”

The outcome of the conversation is reported to Berlin in the following telegram:

“Naval Attaché, 1251. Military Secret:

“1. Last week America offered a nonaggression pact between the
United States, England, Russia and Japan. In view of the
Tripartite Pact and the high counterdemands, Japan rejected this
offer. Negotiations have therefore completely broken down.

“2. The Armed Forces foresaw this development and consented to
Kurusu’s being sent only to impress the people with the fact
that all means had been exhausted.

“3. The Armed Forces have already decided 3 weeks ago that war
is inevitable, even if the United States at the last minute
should make substantial concessions. Appropriate measures are
under way.”

And then—I will not read the whole document, and at the end it says:

“A state of war with Britain and America would certainly exist
by Christmas.”

Assuming that signal reached you before 8 December, you became familiar with the plans of the perfidious Japanese attack upon the United States, did you not?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I do not quite grasp it. I have already said that we had no contact with the Japanese experts or attachés in Berlin. I asserted that we first learned of the Pearl Harbor incident by radio, and I cannot quite see what difference it makes whether on 6 December the attaché in Tokyo told us his predictions, or whether he was drawing conclusions about a future conflict from information sources which we could not control. That has nothing to do with our having advised the Japanese in Berlin to attack America.

MAJOR JONES: Are you saying that you had no conversations in Berlin with the Japanese attaché?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: To my knowledge there were no official conferences between the two admiralty staffs, that is, official operational conferences between the Naval Operations Staff and the Japanese admiralty staff.

THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Elwyn Jones, before you part from that document, I think you ought to read Paragraph 5.

MAJOR JONES: Paragraph 5, My Lord, reads:

“5. Addition—Naval Attaché.

“No exact details are available as to the zero hour for the
commencement of the southern offensive. All the evidence,
however, indicates that it may be expected to start within 3
weeks, with simultaneous attacks on Siam, the Philippines and
Borneo.

“6. The Ambassador has no knowledge of the transmission of the
telegram, but is acquainted with its contents.”

Now I want to...

THE PRESIDENT: With reference to what the witness has just said, I do not know whether I understood him right before, but what I took down he said was that the German Admiralty first knew of Japan’s intention to attack, after Pearl Harbor, not that it first knew of Pearl Harbor by radio. It was the first indication they had of an intention to attack.

MAJOR JONES: That is so, My Lord.

[_Turning to the witness._] I am suggesting to you, Witness, that you knew perfectly well of the Japanese intention to attack the United States before the incident of Pearl Harbor.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I do not know whether you are stressing Pearl Harbor, or the fact that 2 days before the attack on Pearl Harbor we received a telegram from Tokyo to the effect that a conflict was to be counted on. I was asked whether we had known of the fact of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and to that I said: “No.” I said that we had had no conferences in Berlin between the Naval Operations Staff and the Japanese admiralty staff. What you are presenting to me...

MAJOR JONES: I just want to deal with that, but I want to read out to you what your Commander-in-Chief said about that, because it is not what you are saying, you know. On the interrogation of Admiral Raeder on 10 November 1945 (Document D-880, GB-483) he was asked:

“Question: Would such matters be accomplished by Foreign Office
people alone, or would that be in collaboration with the High
Command of the Navy and OKW?”

And Defendant Raeder’s answer was:

“No, the negotiations were conducted by the Foreign Office and
on the part of the Japanese diplomats there was this delegate,
Oshima, who was an officer. He negotiated with the Foreign
Office in his capacity as delegate, but apart from that he was
enough of an expert to look at this thing from a military
standpoint as well. Military authorities had long before that
carried on negotiations with military and naval attachés about
the needs and other things that the Japanese needed... This was
all talked about and thrashed out with the military and naval
attachés.”

That is a very different version of the fact from the version you have given, Witness, is it not? Now, there are two more matters which I want to deal with.

I do not know whether it will be convenient, My Lord, to have a brief adjournment.

[_A recess was taken._]

MAJOR JONES: May it please the Tribunal, with regard to the extract from the interrogation of the Defendant Raeder which I read I wanted to be clear that the defendant was then dealing with the relationship generally between the German authorities in Berlin and the Japanese representatives. I do not want to have given the Court the impression it was a direct negotiation with regard to intervention against America itself. I do not want to mislead the Court in any way with regard to that matter.

[_Turning to the witness._] Did you know of the shooting in December 1942 by a naval unit belonging to the German naval officer in command at Bordeaux of two British Royal Marines who took part in a raid on shipping in the Gironde estuary?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I learned of that later.

MAJOR JONES: Did you see the entry with regard to that shooting in the SKL War Diary?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No, here in Nuremberg the defendant’s counsel showed me an entry, but I do not know whether it was the War Diary of the Naval Operations Staff.

MAJOR JONES: It has been suggested by both counsel for the Defendant Dönitz and counsel for the Defendant Raeder that the entry in D-658 which contained the sentence: “The measure would be in accordance with the Führer’s special order, but is nevertheless something new in international law since these soldiers were in uniform,” that that entry was not from the SKL War Diary. Now, you are familiar with the initial of the Defendant Raeder, are you not?

I want you now to look at the original of D-658, so that it may be established beyond peradventure that this matter was entered in the SKL War Diary. I will put in a photostatic copy of the original if the Tribunal will allow me, because the original is required for other purposes. D-658 was GB-229, and it may be convenient to call the photostats of the originals D-658(a) and GB-229(a). That is the War Diary of the SKL, is it not?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes, I recognize it as such.

MAJOR JONES: And the SKL was perfectly familiar with that dreadful murder of the men at Bordeaux, was it not?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: From the War Diary I can see—such is my impression—that afterward on 9 December they were informed about the fact of the shooting.

MAJOR JONES: And their laconic comment was...

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: In the Armed Forces communiqué it says: “According to the Armed Forces communiqué, the two soldiers have been shot in the meantime.” This can be seen in the War Diary of the SKL and I acknowledged it.

MAJOR JONES: And the humane comment of the SKL is, “It is something new in international law, since the soldiers were in uniform.”

There is one final matter which I wish to ask you about: Is it your contention that the German Navy fought a clean war at sea?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I contend that the German Navy fought a very clean war and that has nothing to do with the fact that it is said here in the Diary of the SKL, as taken from the Armed Forces communiqué, that two soldiers were shot and that this was in accordance with the special order given by the Führer which has been cited but, as the Naval Operations Staff adds, was something new in the history of naval warfare. This too...

MAJOR JONES: I am turning to another matter, but you say generally...

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: May I just say in conclusion that this postscript has been confirmed and that the Navy, in this case Raeder, had no influence on these matters. If you ask me whether I approved that order or something of the sort I would give you my personal opinion of the matters which Raeder and I discussed.

MAJOR JONES: But you know Raeder was Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, and who would have influence in Germany if the commanders-in-chief did not have influence? Here was a matter directly reflecting on the honor of German Armed Forces and despite that deliberate denial of the protection of the Geneva Convention for those British marines he continued in office, after they were deliberately murdered.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: That is a matter of opinion. I may take the following stand: The fact is that in this war, for the first time, a form of sabotage was applied, whether behind the lines by means of air landings or otherwise.

MAJOR JONES: Just a moment. These were marines in uniform. Your own report in the SKL War Diary says so.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I have to comment on that order which was issued earlier. The preamble of that order said that, since there was knowledge of orders to the Allied soldiers or—I do not remember the exact wording any more—since these soldiers were given orders not to bother taking German prisoners but rather to shoot them while carrying out their work in the so-called Commando raids, the following directives had to be issued.

At that time I discussed this matter with Raeder, of course, and I can merely state my personal opinion. I felt that I could believe this preamble because I am of the opinion that if I resorted to, let us say, sabotage behind the lines then of course I could not be bothered with taking prisoners, because then the element of surprise would be excluded. If, therefore, a troop of three to five men, a so-called Commando undertaking, is sent behind the lines in order to destroy enemy installations, then of course they cannot burden themselves with prisoners without running the risk of being killed themselves or of being recognized before they can carry out their undertaking. Therefore I considered this preamble quite credible and I expressly said so at that time.

MAJOR JONES: And you think that that shooting of those two marines was therefore perfectly justified? That is your position on this matter, is it not? Just say “yes” or “no” on that; I will not argue with you.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I have not asserted that in any way. Rather I said, here is a fact of which we were informed only by the Armed Forces communiqué, and that Raeder and the High Command had not been heard on this point. That is what I stated.

MAJOR JONES: Now, the final matter I wanted to ask you about, you have indicated that in your opinion Germany fought a clean war at sea. I want you to look at the new Document D-873 which will be GB-481, which is the log book of U-boat _U-71_, under the date line 21 June 1941, when the Defendant Raeder was Commander-in-Chief of the German Navy. You see the entry reads:

“Sighted lifeboat of the Norwegian motor tanker _John P.
Pederson_ drifting under sail. Three survivors were lying
exhausted under a tarpaulin and only showed themselves as the
U-boat was moving away again. They stated that their ship had
been torpedoed 28 days before. I turned down their request to be
taken aboard, provisioned the boat with food and water and gave
them the course and distance to the Icelandic coast. Boat and
crew were in a state that, in view of the prevailing weather,
offered hardly any prospects of rescue.”—Signed:
“Flachsenberg.”

Is that your conception of a clean war at sea?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I observe that the commanding officer did what he could, in view of the weather which he described when he said that in view of the bad weather he could not rescue them. He threw provisions to them in a sack and gave them the course to the coast. I do not know what there is about that that is inhumane. If he had left without giving them food and the course, then you might make that accusation.

MAJOR JONES: But he could have taken them aboard, you know. These were three men who did...

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No, I believe you cannot judge that. Only the commanding officer himself can judge that, the man in charge of the U-boat. I would have to look at the weather, because it says here “Medium swell.” That could also...

MAJOR JONES: But you see here the U-boat commander must have spoken to these people and physically it must have been possible to take them aboard, but he left them to their fate, you know, knowing quite well he was leaving them to die.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No, not at all. Then he would not have needed to give them any food and to give them the course to the coast. What makes you think that they had to die? By the way...

MAJOR JONES: The last sentence is a clear indication that the U-boat captain knew he was leaving them to die. I am suggesting to you that he could have taken them aboard and should have done so if he had the elements of humanity in him.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No; I do not know the condition of the U-boat, whether the boat was in a position to take prisoners on board. I believe that you have never seen conditions on a U-boat; otherwise you would not judge it like that. Considering that the crew of a U-boat is under water for weeks and uses every last bit of space and is exposed to the greatest dangers day and night, one cannot simply say that it would have been a humane act to take these additional men aboard. Besides, the commander himself says there was hardly a chance of rescue in view of the prevailing weather.

MAJOR JONES: I have no further questions, My Lord.

DR. SIEMERS: Admiral, I have some questions concerning a few points which Mr. Elwyn Jones put to you. An entry was shown to you from the document by Assmann of 10 October 1939 with the assertion that from this it can be seen that Raeder wanted to occupy Norway only in order to have Norwegian bases. I should like to read to you the full entry and I should like you then to take position to the entire document:

“The Führer agrees that full use of the only two battleships
which we have at the time should not be made for the time being.
Russia offered bases near Murmansk...

“Question of siege of England: Führer and Commander-in-Chief of
Navy agree that all objections by neutrals have to be rejected,
even in view of the danger of entry of U.S.A. into the war which
seems certain if the war keeps on.

“The more brutally the war is conducted the sooner the effect,
the shorter the war.

“Capacity for large U-boat production program. Führer rejects
suggestion to have submarines built by or bought from Russia for
political reasons. Commander-in-Chief of Navy states no
advantages to be won for the U-boat war by conquest of Belgian
coast; refers to the value of winning Norwegian
bases—Trondheim—with the help of Russian pressure. Führer will
consider the question.” (Document D-879, Exhibit GB-482)

Admiral, according to the entire contents, is this a complete clarification of the Norwegian problem?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No, not at all.

DR. SIEMERS: Am I right in concluding that here a great number of questions are treated and only one strategic question with reference to Norway...

MAJOR JONES: If your Lordship pleases, the translation came through as, “no advantage of occupation of Norwegian bases” and the translation which is in the document is “Raeder stresses importance of obtaining Norwegian bases.” Perhaps if there might be a careful—I am not saying this in any critical sense—a very careful translation of the entry, it might be important.

THE PRESIDENT: What is the—did you give that an exhibit number?

MAJOR JONES: No, My Lord. That is the entry from Assmann’s headline diary.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I know it is. But I want to know the exhibit number.

MAJOR JONES: I will have an extract made and the exhibit number given this evening, My Lord.

THE PRESIDENT: It would be GB-482, would it not?

MAJOR JONES: Yes, My Lord, that is it; GB-482.

DR. SIEMERS: Mr. President, it is the same date; I beg your pardon if it does not agree; but the document from which I read I received through the courtesy of Mr. Elwyn Jones.

THE PRESIDENT: You had better go into the question of translation and get that settled.

MAJOR JONES: Yes, Your Lordship.

DR. SIEMERS: At any rate, Admiral, both entries are 10 October, that is, of the same conference. Am I right in saying that consequently there were many strategic questions, not one of which can be said to have been treated completely and conclusively?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No, I believe that this complex of questions has nothing to do with the comprehensive discussion between Hitler and Raeder concerning the occupation of Norway. The Norwegian question was touched upon, the occupation of Norway, and then a few points brought up for discussion which Raeder usually jotted down in his notebook. Apart from the question whether an occupation of Norway was necessary or not, the possibility of conquering bases outside German territory was accidentally touched on the same day.

DR. SIEMERS: Therefore, Murmansk which had been offered by Russia was discussed.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: From Russia to Belgium—all along the coast, wherever there were possibilities and advantages for our submarine strategy.

DR. SIEMERS: If in the War Diary a sentence in connection with a conference between Raeder and Hitler is in quotation marks, does that mean that these words were used by Hitler? Can one assume that?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: If it says...

MAJOR JONES: If your Lordship please, the translation has now been checked, and the original reading of “Raeder stresses the importance of obtaining Norwegian bases” appears to be a perfectly correct translation.

THE PRESIDENT: Go on, Dr. Siemers.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I understood, Dr. Siemers; shall I speak about that?

DR. SIEMERS: Yes, did you want to add something to that point?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes. I understand that the other gentleman just pointed out that Raeder allegedly called Hitler’s attention to the necessity of acquiring submarine bases and in that connection once spoke about Russian assistance and also about the possibility of acquiring bases from Norway. But that does not reveal any aggressive intentions.

DR. SIEMERS: Mr. President, in order to save time, I also asked Dr. Kranzbühler to check the translation. The German text as I should like to point out right now says: “The Commander-in-Chief of the Navy points out the value of winning Norwegian bases.” That is something different from the English translation. But I should like to come back to this later.

[_Turning to the witness._] Admiral, Mr. Elwyn Jones then submitted the affidavit of Walter Giese. I should be grateful if you would look at it again. It is D-722. The first line reads:

“I was born at Stettin on 24 November 1900, the son of a
bricklayer’s foreman, Ernst Giese.”

Then it says:

“I sat in the reception room of the Commander-in-Chief as
assistant to the adjutant.”

Then it says, in the same paragraph:

“I received the minute book from the adjutant at midday after
the conferences had ended and locked it up in the general safe.”

Then it says on the second page:

“I did not have much contact with the Commander-in-Chief
personally. This consisted merely in my submitting to him or
fetching from him top-secret correspondence.”

Admiral, am I right in assuming, therefore, that Giese was a sort of messenger?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes. In order to save officers we filled a large number of unimportant positions with civilians, people who we thought were worthy of our confidence. The care of a safe or guarding the key was really the task of the second adjutant, who later had to be used elsewhere.

Giese had been a sergeant in the Navy for many years and for 12 years had been a clerk in the Navy, and therefore had had a certain amount of practice in keeping files.

THE PRESIDENT: All this is stated in the document. If there is anything inaccurate in the document, you can put it to him. But it all is set out in the document, exactly as the Admiral said. You are wasting the time of the Tribunal by repeating it.

DR. SIEMERS: Mr. President, I believe what Mr. Elwyn Jones presented was also in the document. What matters is the question of interpretation and the witness has been referred to very definite points. If I should be mistaken, I beg your pardon. I believed that I also had the right in re-examination to refer to certain points in the document.

THE PRESIDENT: If you want to, you can draw our attention to the paragraphs.

SCHUJLTE-MÖNTING: I can be very brief.

Giese had no inside information about the facts, and even if he had, without permission, looked into the minutes of the adjutant, which were not a shorthand record but merely notes to aid the memory of the adjutant, he could never have received the right impression without having taken part in the conference. And it was not up to him in the reception room to decide who should be admitted to the Commander-in-Chief, but rather up to the adjutant or to me. He did not even know who was to be admitted. And it is a bold statement or assumption when he says that a man like Hagelin saw Raeder each time instead of seeing me first. By the way, Hagelin came to me perhaps four or five times.

DR. SIEMERS: Do you believe Giese was present when Raeder talked to Hitler?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Giese? No, never. Giese sat in the reception room and took care of Raeder’s telephone calls.

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Siemers, nobody here suggests that he was. Mr. Elwyn Jones was not putting it that this man Giese was present at talks between Raeder and the Führer or Raeder and Hagelin.

DR. SIEMERS: Mr. President, this is his affidavit, and in the affidavit, it says, as I should like to point out now, on Page 5, “According to all I heard, I can say that the idea of this undertaking emanated from Raeder and met with Hitler’s joyous agreement.”

How could he know that?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I might stress that even I as chief of staff was not present at these private conferences, and Herr Giese had to stay with the telephone and had no other way of gaining an insight than by giving his imagination free rein.

DR. SIEMERS: That is enough, thank you. I come now to Document D-872. That is the war diary of the naval attaché in Japan, in connection with which you were told that you must have known that Japan would attack America on 7 December. The telegram which is mentioned here is of 6 December. When could that telegram have arrived in your office?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: You mean, when could I have received it personally?

DR. SIEMERS: Yes; or Raeder.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Not before the next morning.

DR. SIEMERS: That would be 7 December.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: At the earliest. In this case, the Chief of Staff of the Naval Operations Staff would decide whether for operational reasons that telegram should be presented at once, or not.

DR. SIEMERS: Admiral, do you remember that document?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes.

DR. SIEMERS: Is Pearl Harbor mentioned in the document?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No. I tried to explain that Pearl Harbor had no connection with that telegram from Admiral Wennecker at all and that Wennecker depended on sources of information and on his assumptions or formulated his assumptions in a telegram on the basis of his information without having any definite facts. Such telegrams were received continuously. Sometimes these assumptions were correct; sometimes they were incorrect.

DR. SIEMERS: Admiral, the Prosecution has submitted it to prove that military negotiations had taken place with Japan. Am I correct in saying that that was only a message concerning possible developments?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes, of course. I have tried before to explain that there were no military negotiations between the admiralty staffs. Rather the naval attaché was charged with examining and transmitting all information of value which came to him.

DR. SIEMERS: Then a document was shown you which was not submitted, an interrogation of Raeder of 10 November 1945. May I ask to look at the bottom of Page 5 of this document which I am handing to you and the passage which was read on Page 6?

THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Elwyn Jones, that ought to have a number, ought it not?

MAJOR JONES: That will be GB-483, My Lord.

DR. SIEMERS: On that document, Page 5 at the bottom, is Document C-75 mentioned?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No.

DR. SIEMERS: I believe you are mistaken, Admiral, or else I have made a mistake.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: I have an English copy—do you mean the English one?

DR. SIEMERS: Yes, the English copy because it does not exist in German.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: You mean the last paragraph?

DR. SIEMERS: I believe the last line or the line before the last. The page numbers are very hard to read. Maybe you have the wrong page.

This interrogation, Mr. President, concerns Document C-75. I believe the witness will find it soon. Mention has been made of this document recently and in accordance with the wish recently expressed by the Tribunal, I am submitting C-75; that is Directive Number 24 about the co-operation with Japan, and the full text is Document Number Raeder-128. The Tribunal will recall that the British Delegation...

THE PRESIDENT: Has it already been put in, C-75, has it already been put in?

DR. SIEMERS: I submit it now, C-75.

THE PRESIDENT: No, has it already been put in? Has it already been offered in evidence?

DR. SIEMERS: You may recall that the Prosecution has submitted Document C-75 as USA-151...

THE PRESIDENT: Well, that is all I wanted to know. If it has already been put in, it does not need a new number, is that not the position?

DR. SIEMERS: Mr. President, may I remind you that it needs a new number because only the first part was submitted by the Prosecution.

MAJOR JONES: It has already been exhibited as USA-151, My Lord.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think we are not giving fresh numbers, Dr. Siemers, to parts of documents which had already been put in. If the document has been put in, then where you want to use a fresh part of the document it has the same number as the old number; that is all.

DR. SIEMERS: But, Mr. President, if the Prosecution in their document put in only the first three paragraphs then I cannot...

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I know; I know that perfectly well, but you are perfectly entitled to put in any part of the document. It is only a question of what number is to be given to it and I think—I may be wrong—that up to the present we have not given new numbers to documents once that they have been put in, although fresh parts of the documents are put in.

MAJOR JONES: My Lord, the position with regard to C-75 is that the whole of the original has been put in as USA-151, but only an extract from the original was included in the English document which was put before the Court.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I see. All I was concerned with was the number of the thing. It has got the number USA-151 and I thought our practice had been that it should continue to have that number. You can put in any part of it you like, and if it is a question of translation, no doubt the Prosecution will hand it to the translation department and have it translated for you; but you are attempting to give it a new number, that is all.

DR. SIEMERS: I beg your pardon, once more, but I was asked recently to submit the document anew and that is where the misunderstanding arose. Under these circumstances, now that I hear that it has been submitted in its entirety, I can withdraw it; I should be grateful if the Tribunal were also to receive the complete translation of the document in English and not only the first two paragraphs.

[_Turning to the witness._] Admiral, have you found it in the meantime?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes, it is on Page 7 as you thought and not on Page 5. The document refers...

DR. SIEMERS: I apologize. It is right then that the interrogation refers to Document C-75?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes.

DR. SIEMERS: Document C-75, Admiral, is Directive Number 24 concerning collaboration with Japan, and it says: “The following rules apply: Our common war aim is to defeat England quickly and thereby keep the U.S.A. out of the war.”

Besides that the document also mentions the fact I referred to recently, that Singapore should be occupied by Japan.

Now Raeder, on 10 November ’45 stated his position in respect to this and, according to the next page of the document, he said that which Mr. Elwyn Jones has just put to you. May I ask you to look at it again? It says there, on Page—I thought it was at the top of Page 6, maybe it is at the top of Page 8...

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: The top of Page 8. I do not know English as well as German, but I would translate it: “If that which Japan needs...”

DR. SIEMERS: If I remember correctly, the word is “need.”

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes, he uses the word “need”—“and other things, things that the Japanese need.”

DR. SIEMERS: That is to say, Japan’s needs and other things which Japan requires. Therefore, the conversations mentioned by Raeder were not concerned with strategic points?

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: No, these are two entirely different things.

DR. SIEMERS: So that Raeder’s answer is concerned purely with questions of supplies and material.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: Yes, purely questions of supplies and material...

DR. SIEMERS: Thank you.

SCHULTE-MÖNTING: ...which we had with all the navies, not only with the Japanese.