Chapter I: N T H E (26)

Secondly, as far as I remember, the art treasures from the museum in Naples, which were at Monte Cassino, were for the greater part sent by us to Venice and there turned over to the Italian Government. Some pictures and statues were brought to Berlin, and there they were turned over to me. On the very same day I gave the list to the Führer, and some time later also the objects themselves which were in my air raid shelter, so that he could negotiate about the matter with Mussolini. I did not keep a single one of these objects for my own collection. If my troops had not intervened, these priceless art treasures, which were stored in Monte Cassino and belonged to the monastery there, would have been entirely destroyed by enemy bombardment, that is to say, by the British-American attackers. Thus they have been saved.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, you say of no value—no substantial value?

GÖRING: That is even now my conviction, and I depended, above all, on the judgment of my experts. I never took this statue out of its packing case. It did not interest me. On the other hand, I wanted to say a few words of thanks to the men who brought it.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The labor shortage in the Reich was becoming acute by November of 1941, was it not?

GÖRING: That is correct.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you yourself gave the directives for the employment of Russian prisoners of war, did you not?

GÖRING: Employment for what?

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: For war industry—tanks, artillery pieces, airplane parts.

GÖRING: That is correct.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: That was at the conference of the 7th of November 1941, that you gave that order, was it not?

GÖRING: At what conference that was I could not tell you; I issued these directives only in a general way.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And the directive was that Russian prisoners of war should be selected in collecting camps beyond the Reich border, and should be transported as rapidly as possible and employed in the following order of priority: mining, railroad maintenance, war industry—tanks, artillery pieces, airplane parts, agriculture, building industry, _et cetera_. You gave that order, did you not?

GÖRING: If I have signed it, the order is from me. I do not remember details.

THE PRESIDENT: What was the number of that, Mr. Jackson?

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I ask to have you shown Document Number 1193-PS.

GÖRING: I have not seen it yet.

[_Document 1193-PS was submitted to the witness._]

This document, which you have just mentioned . . .

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I did not get the answer.

GÖRING: Excuse me. I have just received a document about the use of Russian troops. Is that the document of which you speak?

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: That is right. I call your attention to the fact that it is referred to as an annex in the letter signed by Göring.

GÖRING: I want to point out that this document is not signed by me, but by Körner, which, however, does not diminish my responsibility.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, you do not question that on the 7th day of November 1941, you gave the order, as Körner reports it, do you, in the document referred to as 1193-PS?

GÖRING: I said only that it was not signed by me but by Körner, and here even a still younger official, a Regierungsrat, and I wanted only to explain that this was my field and that therefore I assume responsibility. But I have not read it through yet. This deals with directives and outlines which I gave in general and which were then filled in and revised by the department concerned, whereby naturally not every word or every sentence written here was said or dictated by myself. But that does not alter the fact that I bear the responsibility for it, even if I did not know it in detail, or would have perhaps formulated it differently. But the general directives were given by me and implemented accordingly by the lesser authorities.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You also gave the order, did you not, that 100,000 men were to be taken from among the French prisoners of war not yet employed in armament industry? Gaps in manpower resulting therefrom will be filled by Soviet prisoners of war. The transfer of the above-named French prisoners of war is to be accomplished by October the 1st. You gave the order, did you not?

GÖRING: That is correct. Here we deal primarily with the fact that a large part of French skilled workers who were prisoners of war were turned into free workers on condition that they worked in the German armament industry. The shortages which occurred at their previous places of work at that time, where they had worked as prisoners of war, were to be remedied by Russian prisoners of war, because I considered it pointless that qualified skilled industrial workers should be employed in agriculture, for instance, or in any other field not corresponding to their abilities. Thus there was an incentive in the fact that these people could become free workers instead of remaining prisoners of war, if they would agree to these conditions. The directives were given by me.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And did you know that there was any forced labor employed in Germany?

GÖRING: Compulsory labor.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did you not testify under interrogation on the 3rd of October 1945, that:

“I would like to add something to the last question of the
interrogation. The Colonel asked me if the forced labor program
was effective, and I said ‘Yes’. There are two remarks I would
like to make to that.

“All right.

“I must say that in the results as such it was effective.
However, a great number of acts of sabotage did occur, and also
treason and espionage.

“Question: But on the whole you would say it was a successful
program from the German point of view?

“Answer: Yes. Without this manpower many things could never have
been achieved.”

Did you say that?

GÖRING: That is obvious, because without workers one cannot do any work.

THE PRESIDENT: I do not think you answered the question. The question was if you said the forced labor had been a success. What do you have to say to that? Did you say that?

GÖRING: I have said what I did in answering the question whether the manpower used was successful; yes, that is correct.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, you were shown a document, 3700-PS, written by Schacht to you, and you have said that you received it?

GÖRING: Yes, I remember.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, you and Schacht were somewhat rivals in the economic field at one period, were you not?

GÖRING: I explained that only recently, and to what extent.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You wanted his position abolished in the event of war and he wanted your position abolished in event of war, did he not—your economic position?

GÖRING: Not quite. They were two similar authorities having similar powers at the same time, two personalities, and that in the long run was not possible. It simply had to be decided which one of the two should be the sole authority. That would have been especially necessary in case of a mobilization.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You, in testifying on the 17th day of October last, as to your relations with Schacht, made this statement, did you not, in reference to your disagreements with Schacht: “This I must underline: Schacht always tried to maneuver for a new post, while all the other ministers co-operated absolutely.” Did you say that?

GÖRING: Not exactly as it is there, but I wanted to emphasize that, contrary to the other ministers who obediently followed my directives for the Four Year Plan, I had certain difficulties with Schacht, which I have already explained, due to his original and strong personality.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The question was whether you made that statement in substance or in those words?

GÖRING: Not exactly in these words, but as I have just explained, in substance.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, do you have in mind Schacht’s letter to you, Document Number 3700-PS?

GÖRING: Yes, I read it a short time ago.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And in that letter Schacht said this to you, did he not, referring to 3700-PS? “It may be militarily necessary . . .” Do you want to follow it?

[_Document 3700-PS was submitted to the witness._]

“It may be militarily necessary to conscript the 15-year-olds,
but it will heavily tax the fighting morale of the German
people. The facts as the German people see them are as follows:

“First, the original prospect of a short war has not been
realized.

“Second, the prospective quick victory over England by the Air
Force did not materialize.

“Third, the public statement that Germany would remain free of
enemy air raids has not been fulfilled.

“Fourth, the repeated announcements that the Russian resistance
was definitely broken have been proved to be untrue.

“Fifth, Allied supplies of arms to Russia, and the manpower
reserves of Russia have, on the contrary, been sufficient to
bring continuous heavy counterattacks against our Eastern Front.

“Sixth, the original victorious advance into Egypt has been
halted after repeated attempts.

“Seventh, the landing of the Allies in North and West Africa,
declared impossible, has nevertheless been accomplished.

“Eighth, the extremely large amount of shipping space which was
required for this landing has shown that our U-boats, in spite
of their great successes, did not suffice to prevent this
transport. In addition, the reductions in civilian traffic, in
material for armaments, and in the availability of manpower are
obvious to all the people.

“The conscription of the 15-year-olds will increase the doubts
concerning the termination of this war.”

Can you fix any more definitely than you have done the date when you received that letter?

GÖRING: I can only say again that it is dated the 3rd of November, but the year is missing. If I were to be given a copy where the year is stated, I could give an exact answer. I have said recently that, according to my knowledge of events, it is a question of either November 1944 or November 1943. But, unfortunately, that is not indicated here. I can only see 3rd of November. The year is missing.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Do you know when Schacht was sent to the concentration camp? Do you know the date of that?

GÖRING: Not exactly, but now that you remind me of it, I can say that this letter certainly was not written in 1944 because in November 1944, I believe, Mr. Schacht was already in the concentration camp; consequently, it must date back to November 1943.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And he was sent to the concentration camp shortly after dispatching that letter to you, wasn’t he?

GÖRING: No, that is not correct.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: How much longer was he at large?

GÖRING: The letter is of 3 November 1943, as we have just found. I heard about the arrest of Schacht only after the attempt on the life of the Führer and after my return a few days later, after an illness of some time, that is to say, in September 1944. There is not the least connection between this letter and his arrest, because, when I asked about his arrest, I was told definitely it was in connection with the 20th of July.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did you make an agreement, as Supreme Commander of the Air Force, with the Reichsführer SS, the Youth Führer of the German Reich, and the Reich Minister for Occupied Eastern Territories, about the recruiting of youthful Russians, Ukrainians, White Russians, Lithuanians, and Tartars between the ages of 15 and 20? Did you come to some agreement with Himmler and Rosenberg about that?

GÖRING: That I personally concluded such an agreement, I do not think so. It is possible and even probable that my office did so, however.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you have testified yesterday or the day before—I think Friday—as follows; let me refresh your recollection about the questions of confiscations.

“Now, about the question of confiscation of State property and
it was only such property that was confiscated. As far as I
know, private property is mentioned in the official report as
far as the winter of 1941 and 1942 is concerned, that might have
been the case in the matter of furs or perhaps fur boots, and
some soldiers may have taken little odds and ends from the
people; but on the whole there was no private property and so
none could be confiscated.”

And I think you also said that you never took anything, not even so much as a screw or a bolt, when you were in occupation of foreign territory. Do you recall that testimony?

GÖRING: Very exactly.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Do you still stand on it?

GÖRING: Of course.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I ask to have you shown a Document EC-317.

GÖRING: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, that is a secret command matter, is it not, dated the 7th of September 1943? Is that right?

GÖRING: I have a letter here before me of 21 February 1944.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Then you have the wrong exhibit—EC-317, Page 3.

GÖRING: Yes; Page 3.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: This letter of transmittal we will not bother about. Your secret command matter is dated 7 September 1943, is it not?

GÖRING: That is correct.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And it reads as follows:

“Concerning the removal of the harvested crops and the
destruction of the means of production in the agricultural and
food economy in parts of the Occupied Eastern Territories.

“By direction of the Führer, I give the following orders:

“First: In the territories east of the line fixed by the highest
military command, the following measures are to be taken
gradually, according to the military situation at the time. The
measures are to be determined by the commanders of the army
groups:

“(1) All agricultural products, means of production, and
machinery of enterprises serving the agriculture and food
industry are to be removed.

“(2) The factories serving the food economy, both in the field
of production and of processing, are to be destroyed.

“(3) The basis of agricultural production, especially the
records and establishments, storage plants, _et cetera_, of the
organizations responsible for the food economy, are to be
destroyed.

“(4) The population engaged in the agricultural and food economy
is to be transported into the territory west of the fixed line.”

Right?

GÖRING: Absolutely correct; but I want to make the following statement in connection with it. We are dealing here with purely military measures in a retreat, and may I comment on these four points: I emphasized the other day that a great number of agricultural machines had been brought to Russia by us. As the Russians, in their retreat, destroyed everything, we had all the less military reason to allow the machinery of industries which we had set up and brought there to fall into their hands undestroyed. This concerns an urgently necessary military order which had been issued during a retreat, and which was executed in the same way as before in the reverse sense. It does not deal with any sort of private property.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And it was signed by you?

GÖRING: Yes, this order bears my signature.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I am about to go into a different subject, may it please Your Honor.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, we will adjourn now.

[_A recess was taken._]

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I will ask that the witness be shown a document, 3786-PS, of which there are no extra copies available because it came to us so late. I will ask you to examine that and tell me whether you recall the meeting to which these minutes refer?

GÖRING: We are apparently concerned here with a report dealing with a meeting which took place daily with the Führer. As meetings occurred once or twice daily, I naturally cannot, with any accuracy, without first having read the report, recall the report of 27 January 1945, for I was present at a great number of these meetings during the course of the war.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I shall call your attention to specific incidents in it. The minutes indicate that the Führer, yourself, Keitel, and Jodl were present, were they not?

GÖRING: That is according to the notes.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And I will call your attention to Page 31 and ask you to follow with me the notes and see if it refreshes your recollection. Now this relates to 10,000 imprisoned air force officers. I quote what is attributed to you.

“Göring: Near Sagan, there are 10,000 imprisoned air force
officers. Their custody is the responsibility of the
Commander-in-Chief of the Reserve Army (B.d.E.). Personnel for
guarding or transporting them is said to be lacking. The
suggestion was made as to whether the prisoners should not be
left to their Soviet Russian allies. It would give them 10,000
airmen.

“The Führer: Why did you not remove them earlier? This is an
unequaled bungling.

“Göring: That is the business of the commander of the B.d.E. We
have nothing to do with it. I can only report it.

“The Führer: They must be removed, even if they have to go on
foot. The Volkssturm must be called in. Anyone who escapes will
be shot. Any means must be used.

“Göring: That is from Sagan, there are 10,000 men.

“Guderian: In the transfer process the 4th Armored Division has
been moved out completely, also the 227th Division; the
remainder of the 32d Division is now moving out. The next in
line is the Headquarters of the 3rd SS Panzer Corps which will
move tonight, and tomorrow night the Division Niederland, which
has already pulled out. Parts of the Division Nordland have also
been withdrawn from the front.

“The Führer: Are they to get replacements? Are they already on
the move?

“Guderian: Fegelein took care of that. He has already ordered
that they should be replenished immediately.

“The Führer: It is absolutely clear that the Army Group Vistula
has nothing, for the time being, besides the Corps Nehring, the
one group, and what it has on the Vistula. This must be
organized. It will come from here and partly from Germany. It
must be done, notwithstanding.

“Göring: How many cattle cars are needed for 10,000 men?

“The Führer: If we transport them according to German standards,
then we need at least 20 transport trains for 10,000 men. If we
transport them according to Russian standards, we need 5 or 3.

“Göring: Take their pants and boots off so that they cannot walk
in the snow.”

Do you recall that incident?

GÖRING: I remember this incident but vaguely.

Now that I have given the answer I would like to give a short explanation of the value of this document.

I understood that this document has just now arrived, but I have already been interrogated with respect to this document long before the beginning of the proceedings. Already at that time I pointed out that at the stenographic recording of a meeting two stenographers took notes at the same time, since the meetings often lasted 4 or 5 hours, and therefore these stenographic notes always had to be gone over afterwards, especially as frequently, because of the presence of many men, inaccuracies occurred in the recordings so that statements made by one person were credited to another in the minutes. For that reason I said at that time already that not only did I not remember this statement, but that in my opinion I have never made this statement. We were concerned solely with the preparation of motor vehicles for transport.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, I must say that you were interrogated with reference to the incident, but not with reference to these notes which were not transcribed.

GÖRING: In respect to this transcript and this incident, it was especially emphasized that we were concerned with the stenotype record of the report of the meeting, and I already uttered a similar opinion at that time. It was not submitted to me at that time.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Not stenotype, but stenographic.

You are also reported on Page 35. I call your attention to this and ask you, is it attributed to you mistakenly?

“Göring: The 10,000 prisoners in Sagan should be transported
away by Obergruppenführer Jüttner.” Perhaps I do not pronounce
the word as you would.

“The Führer: These prisoners must be removed by all available
means. Volkssturm must be employed with the most energetic men.
All who attempt to flee will be shot.

“Fegelein: We have a man for that who guards the concentration
camps. That is Gruppenführer Glücks. He must do the job.”

Did that occur?

GÖRING: That I do not know. I have already testified before that the B.d.E. had to take charge of the transportation, because we had nothing to do with it. What ideas and opinions the other gentlemen expressed in the discussions I cannot completely testify to, or state here. It was a question of whether these 10,000 were to be surrendered or shipped away.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I will ask you a question or two about the Warsaw bombing. Was it known to you that on the 3rd of September, the house of the Ambassador of the United States, situated some 17 kilometers out of Warsaw, was bombed by the German Air Force?

GÖRING: No; that is unknown to me.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Your Air Force took a good many pictures of the Polish villages and of Warsaw and used them for distributing among the German people, didn’t they?

GÖRING: That is possible, I was not concerned with that. In any event, the Luftwaffe did not distribute pictures to the German people. It is possible that pictures taken by the Luftwaffe might have got into the German press by way of the Propaganda Ministry. But distribution, in the sense of the Luftwaffe’s distributing photographs like leaflets, never occurred.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The Luftwaffe did take the pictures for the purpose of determining the efficiency of its hits, did it not?

GÖRING: The Luftwaffe took pictures before the target was bombed, and again after the target had been bombed, to determine whether the target had actually been hit.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I ask to have you shown five photographs and ask you if those are not photographs taken by the Luftwaffe, following the attack on Poland.

[_Photographs were shown to the witness._]

GÖRING: To answer the first question, whether the pictures had actually been taken by the German Air Force, I regret I cannot give a positive answer for there is no indication that these were made by the German Air Force. Four out of the five pictures were, if you observe them closely, taken from an oblique angle, as though they had been taken from a church steeple rather than from an airplane, from which generally only vertical pictures are taken because of the built-in camera.

The picture showing the destruction of parts of Warsaw can be regarded technically as such an aerial photo. The date is lacking here. But none of these pictures give any proof that they were taken by the Luftwaffe.

However, let us assume that they were taken by the Luftwaffe, so that further questions will be facilitated.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You say you will assume they were by the Luftwaffe?

GÖRING: Yes, although I doubt it.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I do not want you to give away anything here. If you think they were not taken by the Luftwaffe, I do not want you to admit it.

GÖRING: I said there is no proof. I did not take the pictures, I do not recognize them, they were not submitted to me as Luftwaffe pictures and from a purely technical point of view they could only have been taken from a plane with a private camera from a very oblique angle. They are not true aerial pictures, that is vertical pictures as taken by the Air Force.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, we will pass them then and go to something else.

Let us take up Document 638-PS, Exhibit Number USA-788, about which you have been interrogated and which, as I recall, you authenticated.

[_Document 638-PS was submitted to the witness._]

This is the document which was signed by Dr. Joel and I ask you to follow me.

“From the Reich Marshal’s plans of 24 September 1942.

“First: The Reich Marshal is looking for daring fellows who will
be employed in the East as Sonderkommandos and who will be able
to carry out the task of creating confusion behind the lines.
They are to be formed into bands under leadership, and with
interpreters assigned to them. For this purpose the Reich
Marshal is considering convicts who are first offenders, who
have committed not particularly heinous offenses for which there
can be some human understanding.

“The Reich Marshal first of all mentioned persons convicted of
poaching. He knew, of course, that the Reichsführer SS had
picked out the so-called poachers, and they were already in his
hands. He requests, however, that the question be re-examined.
The only suitable men are those with a passion for hunting, who
have poached for love of the trophy, not men who have laid
snares and traps. The Reich Marshal also mentioned fanatical
members of smuggling gangs, who take part in gun battles on the
frontiers and whose passion it is to outwit the customs at the
risk of their own lives, but not men who attempt to bring
articles over the frontier in an express train or by similar
means.

“The Reich Marshal leaves it to us to consider whether still
another category of convicts can be assigned to these bands or
pursuit commands.

“In the regions assigned for their operations, these bands,
whose first task should be to destroy the communications of the
partisan groups, could murder, burn and ravish; in Germany they
would once again come under strict supervision.

“Signed: Dr. Joel, 24 September 1942.”

Do you wish to make an explanation of that document to the Tribunal?

GÖRING: Yes, with the same that I made once before. The first two paragraphs clearly show that I wanted only those people who had committed no offenses involving laws of honor, such as poachers, distinguishing between those having a passion for hunting and those who only want to steal. I made a distinction also with regard to smugglers, between those who take personal risks showing a certain passion for their activity, and those who do it in a dishonorable way.

Both these main paragraphs plainly show that I did not wish to use criminals of any type, and that is why I explicitly denied having said what is stated in the last paragraphs. It is not a question of the minutes but of the notes taken by an official with whom I discussed these things. He should be able to testify where and if he heard these words uttered by me. But they contradict my ideas so much, and I particularly emphasize this, and in particular, as I have clearly said, as regards rape, which I always punished with death even if committed against citizens of enemy states, that I rejected that statement; and I again pointed out that the main paragraphs are in utmost contradiction to the last remark, because if it had been a matter of indifference to me, I could have selected criminals.

Thirdly, I expressly stated above, that their main task behind the lines was to create confusion, to disrupt communications, to destroy railways, and the like. Fourthly and lastly, the whole thing never took place.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You objected to the word “ravish” which had been translated the first time “rape”, and that is the only objection you made to this document when it was presented to you. Is that not correct?

GÖRING: No, it is not correct that way. I say this because it is a most significant concept which has always particularly contradicted my sense of justice, for shortly after the seizure of power I instigated a sharpening of this phase of German penal laws. And I wanted to show by this word and this concept, that this entire latter part could not have been uttered by me, and I deny having said it. I will absolutely and gladly take responsibility for even the most serious things which I have done, but I deny this statement, as being in complete contradiction to my opinions.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Who is the signer of this document?

GÖRING: Dr. Joel.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Yes—you knew him?

GÖRING: I knew him slightly. I saw him at this conference.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: He was present at the conference?

GÖRING: I instructed him to come to tell him that I wished that type of people.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, you dealt in economic matters with the various occupied countries through Reichskommissars?

GÖRING: I testified the other day that all sorts of authorities, including the Reichskommissars had to follow my economic directives and orders.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And were to report to you on economic matters?

GÖRING: Not about all of them, only insofar as they concerned my directives.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And who was your Reichskommissar in Poland?

GÖRING: There was no Reichskommissar in Poland. There was a Governor General in Poland, that was Dr. Frank.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And who was the Reichskommissar in the Netherlands?

GÖRING: Dr. Seyss-Inquart was Reichskommissar for Holland.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Who was the Reichskommissar for Norway?

GÖRING: In Norway the Gauleiter Terboven was Reichskommissar.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Terboven—he was also a Gauleiter you say?

GÖRING: He was Gauleiter at Essen.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You appointed him to Norway or attained his appointment?

GÖRING: I neither appointed him for Norway—because that was beyond my jurisdiction—nor did I have him appointed. I did not oppose his appointment in any way as I considered he would make a very competent Reichskommissar.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And he was there from 1940 until 1945?

GÖRING: I believe that is correct.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, I will ask to have you shown Document R-134, a communication from Terboven to you.

[_Document R-134 was submitted to the witness._]

That is a communication of the 1st of May 1942, is it not?

GÖRING: I note the date; yes.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And that reports to you as follows, does it not—it is addressed to you as Reich Marshal, “My esteemed Reich Marshal”, is that right?

GÖRING: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Omitting the first paragraph, unless you are to give it.

“Several days ago on an island west of Bergen we captured a
Norwegian sabotage unit, trained by the Secret Service, and
found extensive stores of sabotage instruments, some of them of
a new kind, including probably poison and bacteria. Those which
appeared unfamiliar were forwarded to the Reich Security Main
Office for closer examination.

“Besides other tasks, this sabotage unit was to begin its
sabotage work, on Sola and Herdla using the explosive of which a
sample is enclosed herewith. This appears from written
directives found. Since it must be assumed that similar actions
are under way on airfields on the rest of the European coast,
and assuming that a means of sabotage actually unknown until now
is involved, I am communicating with you by the fastest possible
means, in order to give you an opportunity to issue an
appropriate warning.

“Unfortunately, two especially reliable officers of the Security
Police were killed in the fight against the sabotage unit. We
buried them this morning at 1000 hours in the Heroes’ Cemetery
in Bergen.

“On the same day and at the same hour 18 Norwegians were shot on
my order. These had been captured some time previously in the
attempt to go to England illegally.

“On the same day, the entire village which had harbored the
sabotage unit was burned down and the population deported. All
the males were taken to a German concentration camp without any
notification being sent to their families. The women were sent
to a female forced labor camp in Norway, and those children who
were not capable of working went to a children’s camp. Heil
Hitler! Yours obediently, Terboven.”

Is that correct?

GÖRING: It says so in the letter, a copy of which is before me.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Terboven remained after that report until 1945, didn’t he?

GÖRING: That’s correct.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, later in the same year, 1942, you adopted very similar means to those reported by Terboven to you, did you not?

GÖRING: I did not understand the question.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, you adopted later in the same year the same means as Terboven, didn’t you?

GÖRING: I? Where?

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, I will ask that you be shown Document 1742-PS.

[_Document 1742-PS was submitted to the witness._]

Now, this is a decree of 26 October 1942, by Göring. I ask you to follow me:

“Simultaneously with the intensified combating of guerrilla
activity ordered by the Führer, and the cleaning up of the land
behind the lines, in particular that behind the Army Group
Center, I request that the following points be taken into
consideration, and the conclusions drawn therefrom be put into
practice:

“1. Simultaneously with the combating of the underground forces
and the combing out of the areas contaminated by them, all
available livestock must be driven off to safe areas. Similarly,
food supplies are to be removed and brought into safety, so that
they will no longer be available to the guerrillas.

“2. All male and female labor suitable for any kind of
employment must be forcibly recruited and allocated to the
Plenipotentiary General for Labor, who will then employ them in
safe areas behind the lines or in the Reich. Separate camps must
be organized behind the lines for the children.”

Is that right?

GÖRING: Absolutely. It concerns areas overrun by guerrillas, and no one could expect me to leave cattle and foodstuffs at their disposal. Furthermore, people who were repeatedly being incited to guerrilla activities and revolts against us had to be brought back to safe areas and put to work. I would like to emphasize that this was absolutely vital for the security of the troops. But I may emphasize again that you said I gave the same orders which you read from Terboven’s letter. I did not order villages to be burned, and did not order the shooting of hostages. This was something basically different.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You simply seized all the men, women and children and moved them out. That is what I referred to.

By May of 1944 your problem in the loss of fighter aircraft and fighter personnel was becoming serious?

GÖRING: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: On the 19th of May, 1944, you had a conference in your office, on the subject of fighter aircraft and the losses of fighter personnel, did you not?

GÖRING: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you have been shown the minutes of that meeting and authenticated them in your interrogations?

GÖRING: It is not the minutes of that conference. It is a short and brief summary by an officer of a meeting which, as far as I know, lasted 2 days.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I will ask to have you shown Document L-166. It is entitled, “Most Secret Document,” isn’t it?

GÖRING: That is correct.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And it is also entitled, “Minutes of conference on fighter aircraft with the Reich Marshal on 15 and 16 May 1944.” That is correct, too, is it not?

GÖRING: No, it says, “Notices of a conference on fighter aircraft at the Reich Marshal’s on 15 and 16 May 1944.”

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: “Notices,” you translate it “notices”?

GÖRING: It says “memorandum” here and that is the original.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: “Notes of Conference on Fighter Aircraft.”

GÖRING: Lasting 2 days.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Yes. And at first General Galland described in detail the situation regarding fighter personnel. That took place, didn’t it, and he reviewed the losses?

GÖRING: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And reviewed the losses?

GÖRING: That is right.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And then he reviewed at some length under Item 2, “Remedial Measures,” is that right?

GÖRING: According to the memorandum, yes, but whether that actually took place I cannot say.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: This conference took place, didn’t it?

GÖRING: Absolutely, 2 days.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And under Item 3 General Galland made certain proposals, did he not?

GÖRING: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And then after considerable discussion General Schmidt made certain proposals, Items 12 and 13, is that right?

GÖRING: It must have been so. At any rate it says so according to the memorandum.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You recommended a conference between the chief of the General Staff and the chief of artillery, as soon as possible, did you not? Item 13?

GÖRING: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And General Schmidt’s recommendations and requests appear in Items 14 and 15 and 16 and 17 and 18?

GÖRING: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Then you decided:

“The Reich Marshal has decided that only the III-groups of
fighter squadrons are to remain in the Reich, and that all the
fighters fit for operations are to be pressed into service.”

That occurred, did it not?

GÖRING: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Then:

“The Reich Marshal desires that when low-level attack on
airfields are made, causing considerable loss in personnel and
material, the measures taken for defense and dispersal are to be
re-examined by the Luftwaffenführungsstab.”

Number 19. That occurred, did it not?

GÖRING: Yes.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Item 20 reads:

“The Reich Marshal wishes to propose to the Führer that American
and English crews who shoot indiscriminately over towns, at
moving civilian trains, or at soldiers hanging to parachutes
should be shot immediately on the spot.”

Have I correctly read that?

GÖRING: It says so here. And I objected at once at that time that this was not correct. This passage has no connection at all with the context of these notes, 19-21. Besides the expression “soldiers hanging to parachutes” is entirely misleading and not commonly used. I thought for a long time about how this could have got into the notes, which I never saw and which were drawn up over a period of 2 days, and can only find the explanation that I pointed out—as can be gathered from the other evidence—that around that time the Führer gave a directive in that connection, and that in any event there must be a mistake; that is, it should not be that the Reich Marshal wants to propose, _et cetera_, to the Führer, but that I might have suggested that the Führer had some such intention. But about this the author of these notes would have to be consulted. No other item in all these notes refers to this. Even the next item is entirely different. Whereas everything else stands in relationship, this one point is extraneous.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: In all the notes of the 2 days, this is the one thing that you say is mistaken.

Now I ask to have you shown Document 731-PS.

[_Document 731-PS was submitted to the witness._]

Now, the conference, the notes of which I have just read you, was followed within a week by the order, 731-PS, was it not, the memorandum, 731-PS, which reads:

“The Führer has reached the following decision in regard to
measures to be taken against Anglo-American air crews in special
instances:

“Enemy airmen who have been brought down are to be shot without
court martial proceedings in the following instances . . .”

THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Justice Jackson, shouldn’t you refer to a passage four lines above that, after “Report of the Reich Marshal”?

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I did not, but perhaps for the record it ought to be in full.

“Chief of the Command Staff of the Armed Forces, Chief WFSt.
Please direct drafting of order. W (Warlimont). K (Keitel),
Deputy Chief of Command Staff of the Armed Forces. Must go to
Reichsführer SS. According to the report of the Reich Marshal,
General Korten made the following statement: ‘Memorandum’”—I
think the next line is not in the original—

“‘The Führer has given the following ruling in regard to
measures to be taken against Anglo-American air crews in special
instances:

“‘Enemy airmen whose machines have been shot down are to be shot
without trial by court martial in the following cases:

“‘(1) In the event of the shooting of our own German air crews
while they are parachuting to earth.

“‘(2) In the event of aerial attacks upon German planes which
have made emergency landings and whose crews are in the
immediate vicinity.

“‘(3) In the event of attacks upon railway trains engaged in
public transport.

“‘(4) In the event of low-level aerial attacks upon individual
civilians, farmers, workers, single vehicles, and so forth.’”

Now, there is a note: “In the event of low-level aerial attacks on individual civilians, single civilian vehicles, and so forth,” is there not?

GÖRING: On my copy, “In the event of low-level aerial attacks—on single”—“single” is crossed out here and there are two words written above which I cannot read. Before the expression, “single vehicles,” is the word “civilian” and referring to Point 2, it says:

“I consider it doubtful, because the destruction of a plane
which has made an emergency landing cannot be designated as
gangster methods but rather as a measure in keeping with the
strictest standards of civilized warfare.”

We are concerned with the entire series of questions discussed in these days and weeks and to which Von Brauchitsch also testified recently.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: That note about that emergency landing is signed by “J,” isn’t it, which, stands for “Jodl”?

GÖRING: Certainly.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I think that is all I care to ask.

There are a number of documents which should be introduced in this connection, and I think it will be best perhaps if we tabulate them and get them ready over the evening and present them in the morning.

THE PRESIDENT: Certainly, Mr. Justice Jackson, you can put them all in then.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I want to ask you first some questions about the matter of the British Air Force officers who escaped from Stalag Luft III. Do you remember that you said in giving your evidence that you knew this incident very completely and very minutely? Do you remember saying that?

GÖRING: No—that I had received accurate knowledge; not that I had accurate knowledge—but that I received it.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Let me quote your own words, as they were taken down, “I know this incident very completely, very minutely, but it came to my attention, unfortunately, at a later period of time.” That is what you said the other day, is that right?

GÖRING: Yes, that is what I meant; that I know about the incident exactly, but only heard of it 2 days later.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You told the Tribunal that you were on leave at this time, in the last period of March 1944, is that right?

GÖRING: Yes, as far as I remember I was on leave in March until a few days before Easter.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: And you said, “As I can prove.” I want you to tell the Tribunal the dates of your leave.

GÖRING: I say again, that this refers to the whole of March—I remember it well—and for proof I would like to mention the people who were with me on this leave.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: What I want to know is, where you were on leave.

GÖRING: Here, in the vicinity of Nuremberg.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: So you were within easy reach of the telephone from the Air Ministry or, indeed, from Breslau, if you were wanted?

GÖRING: I would have been easily accessible by phone if someone wanted to communicate with me.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I want you to help me with regard to one or two other dates of which you have spoken. You say: “I heard 1 or 2 days later about this escape.” Do you understand, Witness, that it is about the escape I am asking you, not about the shooting, for the moment; I want to make it quite clear.

GÖRING: It is clear to me.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Did you mean by that, that you heard about the actual escape 1 or 2 days after it happened?

GÖRING: Yes.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Did you hear about it from the office of your adjutant or from your director of operations?

GÖRING: I always heard these things through my adjutant. Several other escapes had preceded this one.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Yes, that’s right. There had been a number of escapes from this camp.

GÖRING: I cannot tell you exactly whether they were from this camp. Shortly before several big escapes had taken place, which I always heard of through the office of my adjutant.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I want you to tell the Tribunal another date: You say that on your return from leave your chief of staff made a communication to you. Who was your chief of staff?

GÖRING: General Korten was chief of staff at that time.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Can you tell us the date at which he made this communication to you?

GÖRING: No, I cannot tell you that exactly. I believe I discussed this incident with my chief of staff later, telling him what I had already heard about it from other sources.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Who was the first to tell you about it? Was it your chief of staff who told you about the shootings? Do you mean that some one else had told you about the shooting?

GÖRING: I cannot say exactly now whether I heard about the shooting from the chief of staff, or from other sources. But in any event I discussed this with the chief of staff.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: What was the date that you talked about it with your chief of staff?

GÖRING: I cannot tell you the date exactly from memory, but it must have been around Easter.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: That would be just about the end of March, wouldn’t it?

GÖRING: No. It might have been at the beginning of April, the first half of April.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: And then you had an interview with Himmler, you have told us?

GÖRING: Yes, I talked with Himmler about this.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Can you fix that?

GÖRING: Of course I cannot establish this date with certainty. I saw Himmler, and, at the first opportunity after I had heard about this incident, spoke to him about it.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: So that you can’t fix the date in relation to your coming back from leave, or the interview with your chief of staff, or any other date, or Easter?

GÖRING: Without any documents it is, as I said, impossible for me today to fix the date. I can only mention the approximate period of time; and that I have done.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You said the other day that you could prove when you were on leave. Am I to take it that you haven’t taken the trouble to look up what your leave dates were?

GÖRING: I have already said that I was on leave during March. Whether I returned on the 26th or the 28th or the 29th of March I cannot tell you. For proof of that you would have to ask the people who accompanied me, who perhaps can fix this date more definitely. I know only that I was there in March.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Witness, will it be perfectly fair to you if I take the latest of your dates, the 29th of March, to work on?

GÖRING: It would be more expedient if you would tell me when Easter was that year, because I do not recall it. Then it will be easier for me to specify the dates, because I know that a few days before Easter I returned to Berchtesgaden in order to pass these holidays with my family.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: A few days before Easter you went back to Berchtesgaden?

GÖRING: Yes.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: So you had come back on leave some day before that. Before you went to Berchtesgaden you had come back from your March leave?

GÖRING: Berchtesgaden was then at the same time the headquarters of the Führer. I returned from my leave to Berchtesgaden, and with my return my leave ended, because I returned to duty. The return to Berchtesgaden was identical with the termination of my leave.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, I can’t give you Easter offhand, but I happen to remember Whitsuntide was the 28th of May, so that Easter would be early, somewhere about the 5th of April. So that your leave would finish somewhere about the end of March, maybe the 26th or the 29th; that is right, isn’t it?

Now, these shootings of these officers went on from the 25th of March to the 13th of April; do you know that?

GÖRING: I do not know that exactly.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You may take that from me, because there is an official report of the shooting, and I want to be quite fair with you. Only 49 of these officers were shot on the 6th of April, as far as we can be sure, and one was shot either on the 13th of April or later. But the critical period is the end of March, and we may take it that you were back from leave by about the 29th of March.

I just want you to tell the Tribunal this was a matter of great importance, wasn’t it? Considered a matter of great importance?

GÖRING: It was a very important matter.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: General Milch—I beg pardon—Field Marshal Milch has said that it was a matter which would require the highest authority, and I think you have said that you know it was Hitler’s decision that these officers should be shot; is that so?

GÖRING: The question did not come through clearly.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: It was Hitler’s decision that these officers should be shot?

GÖRING: That is correct; and I was later notified that it was Hitler’s decree.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I want you just to remember one other thing, that immediately it was published, the British Foreign Secretary, Mr. Eden, at once said that Great Britain would demand justice of the perpetrators of these murders; do you remember that?

GÖRING: I cannot remember the speech to the House of Commons given by Eden. I myself do not know the substance of this speech even today. I just heard that he spoke in Parliament about this incident.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I want you to tell the Tribunal just who the persons in your ministry involved were. I will tell you; I think it would be shorter in the end. If you disagree you can correct me.

The commandant of Stalag Luft III was Oberst Von Lindeiner of your service, was he not?

GÖRING: That is quite possible. I did not know the names of all these commandants. There was a court martial against him and that was because the escape was possible. He was not connected with the shootings.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: No, but he was commandant of the camp, and I suppose you had to review and confirm the proceedings of the Zentralluftwaffengericht which convicted him and sentenced him to a year’s imprisonment for neglect of duty. That would come to you, wouldn’t it? Wouldn’t that come to you for review?

GÖRING: No, only if larger penalties were involved. One year imprisonment would not come to my attention. But I know, and I would like to certify, that court proceedings were taken against him for neglect of duty at the time of the escape.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: In May of 1943, Inspectorate Number 17 had been interposed between the Luftwaffe and the Prisoners of War Organization of the OKW, the Kriegsgefangenenwesen; do you remember that?

GÖRING: I do not know the details about inspection nor how closely it concerned the Prisoners of War Organization of the OKW, or how it was otherwise.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I want to remind you of who your own officers were. You understand, Witness, that your own officers are involved in this matter. I want to remind you who they were. Was the head of Inspectorate 17 Major General Grosch of the Luftwaffe?

GÖRING: Major General Grosch is of the Luftwaffe.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You told the Tribunal the other day—I am quoting your own words—that you knew from information, you knew this incident very completely and very minutely. You are now telling the Tribunal you don’t know whether Major General Grosch was head of Inspectorate Number 17 of the Luftwaffe.

GÖRING: That is irrelevant. I told the High Tribunal that I heard an accurate account of the incident of the shooting of these airmen, but that has no connection with General Grosch and his inspectorate, for he did not participate in the shooting.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I will show you that connection in one minute if you will just answer my questions. Was Grosch’s second in command Oberst Welder; do you remember that?