Chapter VII: Part 7

“In close connection therewith is the actual governing of
Poland. The Führer has ordered me to regard the Government
General as the home of the Polish people. Accordingly, no
Germanization policy of any kind is possible.”

I now pass on to Page 41 of the document book; an entry dated 19 January 1940. I quote the first five lines:

“Dr. Walbaum (Chief of the Health Department): The state of
health in the Government General is satisfactory. Much has
already been accomplished in this field. In Warsaw alone 700,000
typhus injections have been given. This is a huge total, even
for German standards; it is actually a record.”

The next quotation is on Page 50 of the document book, an entry dated 19 February 1940:

“The Governor General is further of the opinion that the need
for official interpretation of Polish law may become greater. We
should probably have to come to some form of Polish government
or regency, and the head of the Polish legal system would then
be competent for such a task.”

THE PRESIDENT: I am afraid there seems to have been some slight difference in the paging and therefore if you would give us carefully and somewhat more slowly the actual date of the document we should be able to find it perhaps for ourselves. The pages do not seem to correspond.

DR. SEIDL: The last quotation which I read was dated 19 February 1940.

I now turn to a quotation; that is, an entry of 26 February 1940, and I quote:

“In this connection the Governor General expresses...”

This is on Page 51 in my book. The entry is of 26 February 1940.

THE PRESIDENT: Page 40 in ours.

DR. SEIDL: “In this connection the Governor General expresses
the wish of Field Marshal Göring that the German administration
should be built up in such a way that the Polish mode of living
as such is assured. It should not give the impression that
Warsaw is a fallen city which is becoming germanized, but rather
that Warsaw, according to the Führer’s will, is to be one of the
cities which would continue to exist as a Polish community in
the intended reduced Polish state.”

A further entry, dated 26 February 1940, deals with the question of higher education. I quote:

“The Governor General points out in this connection that the
universities and high schools have been closed. However, in the
long run it would be an impossible state of affairs, for
instance, to discontinue medical education. The Polish system of
technical schools should also be revived and with the
participation of the city.”

The next quotation is on Page 56 of my document book. An entry of 1 March 1940.

“The Governor General announces in this connection that the
directive has now been issued to give free rein to Polish
development as far as it is possible within the interests of the
German Reich. The attitude now to be adopted is that the
Government General is the home of the Polish people.”

A further entry deals with the question of workers in the Reich territory. Page 60 of my document book, entry of 19 September 1940—I beg your pardon, 12 September 1940. I quote:

THE PRESIDENT: Wait a moment. You mean the first of September, do you?

DR. SEIDL: 12 September—no, it should be 12 March; there is obviously a misprint; 12 March 1940, Page 197 of the diary. I quote:

“Governor General Dr. Frank emphasizes that one could actually
collect an adequate number of workers by force following the
methods of the slave trade, by using a sufficient number of
police, and by procuring sufficient means of transportation; but
that, for a number of reasons, however, the use of propaganda
deserves preference under all circumstances.”

The next quotation is on Page 68 in my document book; an entry of 23 April 1940. I quote the last five lines. The Governor General states:

“The Governor General is merely attempting to offer the Polish
nation protection in an economic respect as well. He was almost
inclined to think that one could achieve better results with
Poles than with these autocratic trustees....”

I now turn to Page 71 of my document book, an entry dated 25 May 1940. Here the Governor General gives an explanation to the President of the Polish Court of Appeal, Bronschinski. I quote the last four lines:

“We do not wish to carry on a war of extermination here against
a people. The protection of the Polish people by the Reich in
the German zone of interest gives you the possibility of
continuing your development according to your national
traditions.”

I turn to Page 77 of my document book, an entry from Volume III, July to September, Page 692. I quote:

“The Governor General then spoke of the food difficulties still
existing in the Government General”—this was to Generaloberst
von Küchler—“and asked the general to see to it that the
provisioning and other requirements of new troops arriving
should be as light a burden as possible on the food situation of
the Government General. Above all, no confiscation whatsoever
should take place.”

I turn to Pages 85 and 86; entries in Volume III, July to September 1940, Page 819 of the diary. This entry deals with the establishment of the medical academy which was planned by the Governor General. I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of this fact.

The next quotation is on Page 95 of the document book, an entry dated 9 October 1940, from the speech of the Governor General on the occasion of the opening of the autumn trade fair at Radom. I quote Line 5.

“It is clear that we...”

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Seidl, the important things for us are the page in the diary and the date. We seem to have the pages in the diary and the dates, so if you will tell us them that will be of the greatest help to us.

DR. SEIDL: The date is 9 October 1940; Pages 966-967 of the diary, I quote Line 6:

“It is clear that we do not wish to denationalize, nor shall we
germanize.”

The next quotation...

THE PRESIDENT: The translation in our book of that sentence is:

“It is clear that we neither want to denationalize nor
degermanize.”

DR. SEIDL: That is apparently an error in the translation.

THE PRESIDENT: In which translation? In the one I have just read out?

DR. SEIDL: In the English translation. I shall now quote literally:

“It is clear that we neither wish to denationalize nor shall we
germanize.”

The other makes no sense.

THE PRESIDENT: That is what I read. Well, it is right in our book anyhow.

DR. SEIDL: The Governor General wished to say that we did not want to deprive the Poles of their national character and that we did not intend to turn them into Germans.

I now turn to Page 101, to an entry dated 27 October 1940, Pages 1026 to 1027 of Volume IV of the diary. A conference with Reich Minister of Labor Seldte. I quote, Line 7:

“He, the Governor General, had complained to the Führer that the
wages of Polish agricultural laborers had been reduced by 50
percent. In addition, their wages had for the most part been
used for purposes which were completely foreign to the idea of
this exchange of workers.”

The next quotation is dated 29 November 1940. It is on Page 1085 in Volume IV, of the year 1940. I quote:

“Hofrat Watzke further states that Reichsleiter Rosenberg’s
office was attempting to confiscate the so-called Polish Library
in Paris, for inclusion in the Ahnenerbe in Berlin. The
Department of Schools was of the opinion that the books of this
Polish library belonged to the state library in Warsaw, as
17,000 volumes were already in Warsaw.

“The Governor General ordered that this Polish library should be
transferred from Paris to Warsaw without delay.”

I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of the next entry, dated 6 and 7 June 1940, which refers to an economic conference. I shall not read from the entry.

The next quotation is dated 25 February 1940. It deals with a conference of the department chiefs, prefects, and town majors of the district of Radom. I quote Page 12:

“Thereupon the Governor General spoke, and made the following
statements:”

It goes on from Page 13:

“I shall, therefore, again summarize all the points.

“1. The Government General comprises that part of the occupied
Polish territory which is not an integral part of the German
Reich...

“2. This territory has primarily been designated by the Führer
as the home of the Polish people. In Berlin the Führer, as well
as Field Marshal Göring, emphasized to me again and again that
this territory would not be subjected to Germanization. It is to
be set aside as the national territory of the Polish people. In
the name of the German people it is to be placed at the disposal
of the Polish nation as their reservation.”

The speech of the Governor General ends two pages further. I quote the last paragraph:

“There is one thing I should like to tell you: The Führer has
urged me to guarantee the self-administration of the Poles as
far as possible. Under all circumstances they must be granted
the right to choose the Wojts and the minor mayors and village
magistrates from among the Poles, which would be to our interest
as well.”

I now turn to the entry of 4 March 1940. From the volume of conferences, February 1940 to November 1940, Page 8:

“The Governor General submits for consideration the question of
whether a slight pressure could not be exerted through proper
use of the Compulsory Labor Order. He refuses to ask Berlin for
the promulgation of a new decree defining special measures for
the application of force and threats. Measures which might lead
to unrest should be avoided. The shipping of people by force has
nothing in its favor.”

The last quotation in my document book is on Page 143. It is an entry dated 27 January 1941, Volume I, Page 115. A conference between State Secretary Dr. Bühler and the Reich Finance Minister, Count Schwerin von Krosigk. I quote the last paragraph:

“It is due to the efforts of all personnel employed in the
Government General that, after surmounting extraordinary and
unusual difficulties, a general improvement in the economic
situation can now be noted. The Government General, from the day
of its birth, has most conscientiously met the demands of the
Reich for strengthening the German war potential. It is,
therefore, permissible to ask that in future the Reich should
make no excessive demands on the Government General, so that a
sound and planned economy may be maintained in the Government
General, which, in turn, would prove of benefit to the Reich.”

That completes Volume II of the document book.

I now come to Volume III and I ask the Tribunal to refer to a quotation on Page 17 in my document book. It is an entry following a government meeting of 18 October 1941. I quote the eighth line from the bottom; it is a statement of the Governor General:

“I shall first of all state, when replying to these
demands”—that means, the demands of the Reich—“that our
strength has been exhausted and that we can no longer take any
responsibility as regards the Führer. No instructions, orders,
threats, _et cetera_, can induce me to answer anything but an
emphatic ‘no’ to demands which, even under the stress of wartime
conditions, are no longer tolerable. I will not permit a
situation to arise such as you, Mr. Naumann, so expressly
indicated, such as, for example, placing large areas at the
disposal of the troops for maneuvers and thus completely
disrupting the food supply which is already utterly
insufficient.”

The next quotation is on Pages 36 and 37 of my document book. It is an entry dated 16 January 1942, and the quotation to which I am referring is on the next page—Pages 65 and 66 of the diary:

“Later on a short discussion took place in the King’s Hall of
the Castle.”

It took place with the chief of the Ukrainian committee. I quote:

“The Governor General desires a larger employment of Ukrainians
in the administrative offices of the Government General. In all
offices in which Poles are employed there should also be
Ukrainians in proportion to the number of their population. He
asked Professor...”

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Seidl, if you will give us the page in your document book now, that will be sufficient for the present, because they seem to correspond.

DR. SEIDL: Very well. May I continue, Mr. President?

THE PRESIDENT: I think so, yes.

DR. SEIDL: I then come to Page 38 in the document book. This entry deals with a law drafted by Himmler, which has already been mentioned, regarding the treatment of aliens in the community. I quote:

“The Governor General orders the following letter to be sent to
Landgerichtsrat Taschner:

“‘Please inform Reich Minister Dr. Lammers of my opinion which
follows with my signature certified by yourself: I am opposed to
the law on the treatment of people foreign to the German
community, and I request that an early date be set for a meeting
of leading officials with regard to the draft so that it may be
possible to set forth the principal legal viewpoints which today
still emphatically contradict this proposal in its details. I
shall personally attend this meeting. In my opinion it is
entirely impossible to circumvent the regular courts and to
transfer such far-reaching authority exclusively to police
organizations. The intended court at the Reich Security Main
Office cannot take the place of a regular court in the eyes of
the people.’”

On Page 39 I quote the last paragraph but one:

“For that reason I object to this draft in its present form,
especially with regard to Paragraph 1 of the decree concerning
the order of its execution.”

Page 40 is an entry dated 7 June 1942 which also deals with that question of denationalization so emphatically denied by the Governor General. I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of this document. The next quotation is on Page 47 and deals with the acquisition of Chopin’s posthumous works. I quote Paragraph 2:

“President Dr. Watzke reports that it would be possible to
procure in Paris the major part of Chopin’s posthumous wonks for
the State Library in Kraków. The Governor General approves of
the purchase of Chopin’s posthumous works through the government
of the Government General.”

Page 50 deals with an entry in the diary which concerns the securing of agricultural property. I quote Page 767 of the diary, Paragraph 2:

“It is my aim to bring about agricultural reform in Galicia by
every possible means, even during the war. I thus have kept the
promises which I made a year ago in my proclamation to the
population of this territory. Further progress of a beneficial
nature can therefore result through the loyal co-operation of
the population with the German authorities. The German
administration in this area is willing, and has also been given
orders to treat the population well. It will protect the loyal
population of this area with the same decisive and fundamental
firmness with which it will suppress any attempt at resistance
against the order established by the Greater German Reich. For
this purpose, for the protection of the individual farmer, I
have issued an additional decree concerning the duties of the
German administration for food and agriculture in Galicia.”

I turn to Page 55 of the document book. This concerns a speech, made by the Governor General before the leaders of the Polish Delegation, and I quote the last paragraph on Page 56, Line 6:

“I hope that the new harvest will place us in a position to
assist the Polish Aid Committee. In any event we will do
whatever we can to check the crisis. It is also to our interest
that the Polish population should enjoy their work and
co-operate. We do not want to exterminate or annihilate
anybody...”

Page 61 of the document book deals with a conference which the Governor General held with the Plenipotentiary General for the Allocation of Labor. I quote the last paragraph on Page 919 of the diary:

“I would also like to take this opportunity of expressing to
you, Party Comrade Sauckel, our willingness to do everything
that is humanly possible. However, I should like to add one
request: The treatment of Polish workers in the Reich is still
subject to certain degrading restrictions.”

I turn to Page 62 and quote Line 10:

“I can assure you, Party Comrade Sauckel, that it would be a
tremendous help in recruiting workers, if at least part of the
degrading restrictions against the Poles in the Reich could be
abolished. I believe that could be effected.”

I now turn to Page 66 of the document book. This is the only entry in the diary of the Defendant Dr. Frank which he has signed personally. It is a memorandum on the development in the Government General after he had been relieved of all his positions in the Party, and had repeatedly stated that he was resigning and hoped that now at last his resignation would be accepted.

I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of this final survey, dated 1 September 1942. It consists of five pages: Pages 66 to 71.

The next quotation is on Page 75 and deals with the safeguarding of art treasures. I quote the fifth line from the bottom. It is a statement made by the Governor General:

“The art treasures were carefully restored and cleaned, so that
approximately 90 percent of all the art treasures of the former
state of Poland in the territory of the Government General could
be made safe. These art treasures are entirely the property of
the Government General.”

I ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 92 of this volume. It is an entry dated 8 December 1942, which was made on the occasion of a meeting of departmental chiefs and which deals with the supply situation.

I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of that entry. The same for the entry on Page 93, in which the Governor General speaks of the question of recruiting workers and most severely condemns all measures of force.

The next entry, which appears important to me and which should be read into the record, is on Page 108. It concerns a press conference, and I ask the Tribunal to turn directly to Page 110. I quote the third paragraph:

“The Governor General sums up the result of the conference and
states that, with the participation of the president of the
department for propaganda and the press chief of the Government,
all points will be comprised in a directive to be issued to all
leading editors of the Polish papers. Instructions for the
handling of matters concerning foreigners, in the press and in
the cultural field, will be included in this directive. The
conciliatory spirit of the Reich will serve as a model.”

I now ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 127 of the document book, a conference of 26 May 1943, which deals with the question of food. I quote the eighth line:

“We must understand that the first problem is the feeding of the
Polish population; but I would like to say, with complete
authority, that whatever happens with the coming rationing
period in the Government General, I shall, in any case, allot to
the largest possible number of the population such food rations
as we can justifiably afford in view of our commitments to the
Reich. Nothing and nobody will divert me from this goal...”

Page 131 of the document book deals with a committee of the Governor General for supplies for the non-German working population. I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of these statements, and I now turn to Page 141. This entry also deals with the food situation. I quote the tenth line from the bottom:

“After examining all possibilities I have now ordered that as
from 1 September of this year, the food situation of the Polish
population of this territory shall also be regulated on a
generous scale. By 1 September of this year we shall introduce,
for the population of this territory, the rations which are
called the ‘Warthegau rations.’”

I ask permission to quote a few sentences from Page 142:

“I should like to make a statement to you now. From the
seriousness with which I utter these words, you can judge what I
have in mind. I myself and the men of my Government are fully
aware of the needs also of the Polish population in this
district. We are not here to exterminate or annihilate it, or to
torment these people beyond the measure of suffering laid upon
them by fate. I hope that we shall come to a satisfactory
arrangement in all matters that sometimes separate us. I
personally have nothing against the Poles...”

I now turn to Page 148. It is a conference which deals with young medical students. I quote Page 149, Paragraph 2, which is a statement by the Governor General:

“This first—we can safely call it Ministry of Health, even
though this expression is not used—is something entirely new.
This department for health will have to deal with important
problems. For us, the physicians in this territory, there is
above all a lack of...”

Mr. President, I have just discovered that an error may possibly have occurred, since these statements on Page 672 were perhaps not made by the Governor General himself but by the head of the Health Department. I shall examine this question again and then submit the result to the Tribunal in writing.

I now turn to Page 155 of the document book. This entry seems to me of a vital nature. It is dated 14 July 1943 and deals with the establishment of the State Secretariat for Security.

THE PRESIDENT: It is not in our book, apparently. We haven’t got a Page 155, and we haven’t got a date, I think, of the 14th of July.

DR. SEIDL: It is July 1943. It has probably been omitted. With the approval of the Tribunal I shall read the sentences in question into the record. There are only three sentences:

“The Governor General points out the disastrous effect which the
establishment of the State Secretariat for Security has had on
the authority of the Governor General. He said that a new police
and SS government had tried to establish itself in opposition to
the Governor General which it had been possible to suppress only
at the expense of a great deal of energy and at the very last
moment.”

I then ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 166 of the document book. This entry deals with general questions regarding the policy in Poland. I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of this document.

Page 193 deals with the establishment of the Chopin Museum which was created by the Governor General. I quote Page 1157 of the diary, which is an extract from the Governor General’s speech:

“Today I have inaugurated the Chopin Museum in Kraków. We have
saved and brought to Kraków, under most difficult circumstances,
the most valuable mementos of the greatest of Polish musicians.
I merely wanted to say this in order to show you that I want to
make a personal effort to put things in order in this country as
far as possible.”

The last quotation is on Page 199 of Volume II of the document book. It is an extract from a speech which Reichsführer SS Himmler made on the occasion of the installation of the new Higher SS and Police Leader in Kraków, before the members of the Government and the Higher SS and Police Leaders. This is the speech which the Defendant Frank mentioned when he was examined. I quote the eighth line from the bottom:

“You are all very familiar with the situation: 16 million aliens
and about 200,000 Germans live here; or if we include the
members of the Police and Wehrmacht, perhaps 300,000. These 16
million aliens, who were augmented in the past by a large number
of Jews who have now emigrated or have been sent to the East,
consist largely of Poles and to a lesser degree of Ukrainians.”

I turn to the last document of this volume, Page 200, an entry dated 14 December 1943. It concerns a speech which the Governor General made to officers of the Air Force. I quote the second paragraph:

“Therefore, everything should be done to keep the population
quiet, peaceful, and in order. Nothing should be done to create
unnecessary agitation among the population. I mention only one
example here:

“It would be wrong if now, during the war, we were to undertake
the establishment of large German settlements among the
peasantry in this territory. This attempt at colonizing, mostly
through force, would lead to tremendous unrest among the native
peasant population. This, in turn, from the point of view of
production, would result in a tremendous loss to the harvest, in
a curtailment of cultivation, and so on. It would also be wrong
forcibly to deprive the population of its Church, or of any
possibility for leading a simple cultural life.”

I turn to Page 201, and I quote the last paragraph:

“We must take care of these territories and their population. I
have found, to my pleasure and that of all of our colleagues,
that this point of view has prevailed and that everything that
was formerly said against the alleged friendship with the Poles
or the weakness of this attitude, has dwindled to nothing in
face of the facts.”

That completes Volume II of the document book—I beg your pardon, I meant Volume III. Now I come to Volume IV of the document book.

Page 1 of the document book deals with a conversation which took place on 25 January 1943 with the SS Obergruppenführer Krüger. I quote the last paragraph:

“The Governor General states that he had not been previously
informed about the large-scale action to seize asocial elements
and that this procedure was in opposition to the Führer’s decree
of 7 May 1942, according to which the State Secretary for
Security must obtain the approval of the Governor General before
carrying out instructions by the Reichsführer SS and Chief of
the German Police. State Secretary Krüger states that this
concerned secret instructions which had to be carried out
suddenly.”

I ask the Tribunal to take cognizance of the fact that this is merely an example of many similar discussions and differences of opinion.

I now turn to Page 24 of the document book. This concerns a meeting of the War Economy Staff and the Defense Committee on 22 September 1943. I hope that the pages tally again.

THE PRESIDENT: You said Page 24, didn’t you?

DR. SEIDL: Page 24, an entry of 22 September 1943.

THE PRESIDENT: It looks as though the paging is right. Our book is Page 24 at the top, so perhaps you will continue to quote the page for a moment or two. We will see whether it goes on right.

DR. SEIDL: This concerns an entry dated 22 September 1943, a meeting of the War Economy Staff and the Defense Committee. I quote only the first lines:

“In the course of the past few months, in the face of the most
difficult and senseless struggles, I have had to insist on the
principle that the Poles should, at last, be given a sufficient
quantity of food. You all know the foolish attitude of
considering the nations we have conquered as inferior to us, and
that at a moment when the labor potential of these peoples
represents one of the most important factors in our fight for
victory. By my opposition to this absurdity, which has caused
most grievous harm to the German people, I personally—and many
men of my government and many of you—have incurred the charge
of being friendly or soft towards the Poles.

“For years now people have not hesitated to attack my government
of this area with the foulest arguments of this kind, and behind
my back have hindered the fulfillment of these tasks. Now it has
been proved as clear as day that it is insane to want to
reconstruct Europe and at the same time to persecute the
European nations with such unparalleled chicanery.”

I now turn to Page 34 of the document book, an entry dated 20 April 1943, concerning a government meeting. I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of the final words only of the Governor General’s speech on Page 38 of the document book and Page 41 of the diary. Then I turn to Page 39 of the document book, a meeting of 22 July 1943; I quote from the second paragraph, the tenth line:

“The question of the resettlement was altogether particularly
difficult for us in this year. I can give you the good news that
resettlement in general has been completely discontinued for the
duration of the war. With regard to the transferring of
industries, we have just started to work at full speed. As you
know—I personally attach great importance to it—we have to
satisfy this need of the Reich, and in the coming months we
shall install great industrial concerns of international renown
in the Government General.

“However, with regard to this question we must consider the
almost complete reconstruction of the Government General which
has consequently been forced upon us. While, until now, we have
always figured as a country supplying the Reich with labor, as
an agricultural country, and the granary of Europe, we shall
within a very short time become one of the most important
industrial centers of Europe. I remind you of such names as
Krupp, Heinkel, Henschel, whose industries will be moved into
the Government General.”

I now ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 41 of the document book. It is the statement which was made by the witness Doctor Bühler on 26 October 1943, in which he states that this report dealt with 4 years of reconstruction in the Government General on the basis of reliable information from the 13 chief departments. The statement includes Pages 42 to 69 of the document book. I do not propose to quote from this statement, but I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of it.

I go straight on to Page 70 of the document book, which concerns a government meeting dated 16 February 1944. I quote the last paragraph, Page 4 of the document book.

“As opposed to this, the fact must be established that the
development, construction, and securing of that which today
gives this territory its importance were possible only because
it was necessary, in opposition to the ideas of the advocates of
brute force—so completely untimely during a war—to bring the
human and material resources of this area into the service of
the German war effort in as constructive a manner as possible.”

The next quotation is Page 74; an entry dated 6 March 1944. I quote the last paragraph on Page 75, Page 5 of the diary:

“The Governor General does not, as a matter of principle, oppose
the training of the younger generation for the priesthood
because, if courses for doctors, _et cetera_, are arranged,
similar opportunities must also be created in the field of
religion.”

Page 77 deals with an order by the Governor General prohibiting the evacuation of the population, or a part of it, which was in the fighting zone near Lublin.

On Page 80 is an entry dated 12 April 1944. I quote the second paragraph:

“In this connection President Gerteis spoke of the treatment of
the Poles in the Reich. This treatment, said to be worse than
that of any other foreign workers, had led to the result that
practically no Poles would volunteer any more for work in
Germany.

“There were 21 points on which the Polish workers in the Reich
were more badly treated than any other foreign workers. The
Governor General requested President Gerteis to acquaint him
with these 21 points which he would certainly attempt to have
abolished.”

I now ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 100 of the document book. It concerns a conference on 6 June 1944 regarding a large-scale action against the partisans in the Bilgoraje Forest. I quote Page 101, Page 4 of the diary:

“The Governor General wants to be quite sure that protection is
given to the harmless population, which is itself suffering
under the partisan terror.”

Page 102 deals with the views of the Governor General on concentration camps. It is an entry dated 6 June 1944. I quote the last paragraph:

“The Governor General declared that he would never sign such a
decree, since it meant sending the person concerned to a
concentration camp. He stated that he had always protested with
the utmost vigor against the system of concentration camps, for
it was the greatest offense against the sense of justice. He had
thought there would be no concentration camps for such matters,
but they had apparently been silently put into operation. It
could only be handled in such a manner that the persons
condemned would be pardoned to jail or prison for a certain
number of years. He pointed out that prison sentences, for
instance, were imposed and examined by state institutions. He
therefore requested that State Secretary Dr. Bühler should be
informed that he, the Governor General, would not sign such
decrees. He did not wish concentration camps to be officially
sanctioned. He went on to say that there was no pardon which
would commute a sentence into commitment to a concentration
camp. The courts-martial are state legal organs of a special
character and consist of police units; actually they should
normally be staffed by members of the Wehrmacht.”

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Seidl, can you explain the translation of the words at the bottom of Page 102 which are in English, “It only could be handled in such a manner that the persons would be pardoned to jail or prison for a certain number of years.” Can you explain that from the point of view of meaning?

DR. SEIDL: The meaning of the words becomes clear from the statement made by President Wille in the previous paragraph where, among others, you will find the following statement. It is the tenth line from the top.

“The Reprieve Commission had asked the representative of the
Chief of the Security Police, who was present at the session, in
what form this pardon was to be effected. As far as he knew,
remittance of a sentence had been allowed in one case only. In
all other cases it was customary to couple Security Police
measures with the remittance of a sentence. It was feared that
otherwise these people might disappear.”

Now the Governor General was of the opinion that, for example, to transmute a death sentence to a term in prison or penitentiary was possible but that he would have to refuse direct commutation of a death penalty into a suspended prison penalty if the Police in that event were to impose security measures.

THE PRESIDENT: You mean that it meant that pardon from a death sentence might be made by a reprieve for a sentence in prison for a certain number of years, but not by sending to a concentration camp, which would be for an indefinite period and under police methods?

DR. SEIDL: Yes, that is the sense of it.

I now turn to Page 104 of the document book. This quotation also deals with the general question of treatment of the population in the Government General.

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Seidl, you have been very much longer than you said, and the Tribunal thinks you might be able to cut down a great deal of this. It is all very much on the same lines.

DR. SEIDL: Yes. In that case, I ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 112 of the document book, an entry dated 10 July 1944. This entry deals with the official control of art treasures. I quote the second paragraph:

“The Governor General instructs the expert Palezieux to have a
complete index made of these art treasures.”

THE PRESIDENT: You have already told us and given us some evidence to support the view that the Defendant Frank was preserving the art treasures and was wishing them to be preserved in Poland, and it is not necessary under those circumstances to go reading passages about it.

DR. SEIDL: Very well. Then I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of that entry; and if the Tribunal agrees, I shall merely give you the pages of the documents in the document book which appear important to me. That is page...

[_The proceedings were interrupted by technical difficulties in the interpreting system._]

Gentlemen of the Tribunal, if the Court is agreeable I should like to give only the numbers of the pages of Volume IV of the document book which seem particularly important to me. These are the Pages 115, 121, 123, 134, 139, 152, and 182. That concludes Volume IV of the document book and I come to the last volume of the document book which will be finished considerably faster.

Volume V deals exclusively with the accusations made by the Prosecution of the United States against the Defendant Frank concerning his activity as President of the Academy for German Law, as President of the National Socialist Lawyers’ Association, and similar positions. Page 1 is a document which has already been submitted by the Prosecution, 1391-PS. It still has no USA number and will be Exhibit Number Frank-11. It is the law regarding the Academy for German Law with the necessary statutes and the tasks resulting therefrom.

I turn to page 25 of the document book. This quotation becomes Exhibit Frank-12 (Document Number Frank-12). It deals with a sentence which has been ascribed to the defendant: “Right is that which is good for the people.” This quotation should prove only that the Defendant Dr. Frank wanted to express nothing more than that which is implied in the Roman sentence: _Salus publica suprema lex_ (The supreme law is the welfare of the people). I ask the Court to take cognizance of this and turn to Page 26 of the document book, an excerpt from the magazine of the Academy for German Law of 1938. That will be Exhibit Frank-13 (Document Number Frank-13). This quotation also deals with the afore-mentioned sentence: “Right is that which is good for the people.”

Page 30 is an excerpt from Exhibit USA-670 (Document Number 3459-PS) and deals with the closing celebration of the “Congress of German Law 1939” at Leipzig, where the Defendant Dr. Frank made the concluding speech before 25,000 lawyers. I quote on Page 31, Line 10 from the bottom:

“Only by applying legal security methods, by administering true
justice, and by clearly following the legislative ideal of law
can the national community continue to exist. This legal method
which permanently ensures the fulfillment of the tasks of the
community has been assigned to you, fellow guardians of the law,
as your mission. Ancient Germanic principles have come down to
us through the centuries.

“1) No one shall be judged who has not had the opportunity to
defend himself.

“2) No one shall be deprived of the incontestable rights which
he enjoys as a member of the national community, except by
decision of the judge. Honor, liberty, life, the profits of
labor are among those rights.

“3) Regardless of the nature of the proceedings, the reasons for
the indictment, or the law which is applied, everyone who is
under indictment must be given the opportunity to have a defense
counsel who can make legal statements for him; he must be given
a legal and impartial hearing.”

I turn to Page 35 of the document book, which deals with a speech, an address by the Defendant Dr. Frank, made at a meeting of the heads of the departments of the National Socialist Lawyer’s Association on 19 November 1941. The speech—that is, the excerpt—becomes Exhibit Number Frank-14 (Document Number Frank-14). I quote only a few sentences at the top of Page 37.

“Therefore, it is a very serious task which we have imposed upon
ourselves and we must always bear in mind that it can be
fulfilled only with courage and absolute readiness for
self-sacrifice. I observe the developments with great attention.
I watch every anti-juridical tendency. I know only too well from
history—as you all do—of the attempts made to gain
ever-increasing power in general directions because one has
weapons with which one can shoot, and authority on the basis of
which one can make people who have been arrested disappear. In
the first place, I mean by this not only the attempts made by
the SS, the SD, and by the police headquarters, but the attempts
of many other offices of the State and the Reich to exclude
themselves from general jurisdiction.”

I turn to—I would like to quote the last five lines on Page 41. Those were the last words spoken during that session:

“One cannot debase law to an article of merchandise; one cannot
sell it; it exists or it does not exist. Law is not an exchange
commodity. If justice is not supported, the State loses its
moral foundation; it sinks into the abyss of darkness and
horror.”

The next document is on Page 42. It is the first address which the Defendant Dr. Frank made in Berlin at the university on 8 June 1942. It will be Exhibit Number Frank-15 (Document Number Frank-15). I quote Page 44, second paragraph, seventh line:

“On the other hand, however, a member of the community cannot be
deprived of honor, liberty, life, and property; he cannot be
expelled and condemned without first being able to defend
himself against the charges brought against him. The Armed
Forces serve us as a model in this respect. There everyone is a
free, honored member of the community, with equal rights, until
a judge—standing independently above him—has weighed and
judged between indictment and defense.”

I then turn to Page 49 of the document book, the second of these four long speeches. It was held in Vienna, and will become Exhibit Number Frank-15.

THE PRESIDENT: We have already had Exhibit Frank-15 on Page 41.

DR. SEIDL: No, I beg your pardon, Mr. President; it will be Frank-16 (Document Number Frank-16). I quote only one sentence on Page 51.

“I shall continue to repeat with all the strength of my
conviction that it would be an evil thing if ideals advocating a
police state were to be presented as distinct National Socialist
ideals, while old Germanic ideals of law fell entirely into the
background.”

Now I ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 57 of the document book to the speech made by the Defendant Dr. Frank at the University of Munich, on 20 July 1942. This will be Exhibit Frank-17 (Document Number Frank-17). I quote on Page 58, Line 16:

“It is, however, impossible to talk about a national community
and still regard the servants of the law as excluded from this
national community, and throw mud at them in the midst of the
war. The Führer has transferred the tasks of the Reich Leader of
the Reich Legal Office and that of the leader of the National
Socialist Lawyers’ Association to me, and therefore it is my
duty to state that it is detrimental to the German national
community if in the ‘Black Corps’ lawyers are called
‘sewer-rats.’”

I ask the Tribunal to turn to Page 67 of the document book. That is the speech which he made at Heidelberg on 21 July 1942. That will be Exhibit Frank-18 (Document Number Frank-18). I ask the Tribunal to take official notice of that speech. On Page 69 I quote only one sentence: “But never must there be a police state, never. That I oppose.”

I now come to the last document which the Prosecution of the United States has already submitted under Exhibit Number USA-607 (Document Number 2233(x)-PS), an excerpt from the diary: “Concluding reflections on the events of the last three months.”

In these reflections Dr. Frank once more definitely states his attitude towards the concept of the legal state, and I ask the Tribunal to take cognizance particularly of his basic assumptions on Pages 74 and 75 of the document book. Here, Dr. Frank again formulated the prerequisites which he considered necessary for the existence of any legal state. I quote only a few lines from Page 74:

“1) No fellow German can be convicted without regular court
procedure, and only on the basis of a law in effect before the
act was committed.

“2) The proceedings must carry full guarantee that the accused
will be interrogated on all matters pertaining to the
indictment, and that he will be able to speak freely.

“3) The accused must have the opportunity, at all stages of the
trial, to avail himself of the services of defense counsel
acquainted with the law.

“4) The defense counsel must have complete freedom of action and
independence in carrying out his office in order to strike an
even balance between the State prosecutor and the defendant.

“5) The judge or the court must make his or its decision quite
independently—that is, the verdict must not be influenced by
any irrelevant factors—in logical consideration of the subject
matter and in just application of the purport of the law.

“6) When the penalty imposed by the sentence has been paid, the
act has been expiated.

“7) Measures for protective custody and security custody may not
be undertaken or carried out by police organs, nor may measures
for the punishment of concentration camp inmates, except from
this aspect, that is, after confirmation of the intended
measures by regular, independent judges.

“8) In the same manner, the administration of justice for fellow
Germans must guarantee full safeguarding of individual interests
in all relations pertaining to civil suits proper.”

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Seidl, are there any passages in these documents which express the opinion that the same principles ought to be applied to others than fellow Germans?

DR. SEIDL: In this last quotation the Defendant Dr. Frank dealt basically with questions of law without making any difference here between Germans and people of foreign nationality. However, in his capacity as Governor General he also fundamentally objected at all times to the transfer of Poles, Ukrainians, and Jews to concentration camps. This can be seen from a whole series of entries in the diary.

With this I have come to the end of my evidence for Dr. Frank. There are left only the answers to interrogatories by witnesses whose interrogation before a commission has been approved by the Court. At a later date I shall compile these interrogations in a small document book and submit the translation thereof to the Tribunal.

THE PRESIDENT: You are speaking of interrogatories where you have not yet got the answers; is that right?

DR. SEIDL: These are interrogatories to which the answers have not yet been received.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, as soon as you have received them you will furnish them to the Prosecution and to the Tribunal?

DR. SEIDL: Yes.

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pannenbecker.

DR. OTTO PANNENBECKER (Counsel for Defendant Frick): In presenting evidence for the Defendant Frick, I shall forego calling the defendant himself as a witness. The questions which require an explanation deal mainly with problems relating to formal authority and also with problems which differentiate between formal authority and actual responsibility. These are problems, part of which have already been elucidated by the interrogation of Dr. Lammers and the rest of which will be cleared up by the submission of documents. One special field, however, cannot be entirely clarified by documents; and that is the question of the actual distribution of authority within the sphere of the Police; but for that special field I have named the witness Dr. Gisevius. He is the only witness whose interrogation seems to be necessary for the presentation of evidence in the case of Frick. Therefore, in the meantime, I have dispensed with other witnesses.

I ask the Court to decide whether I should call the witness Dr. Gisevius first or whether I should submit my documents first. If documents are to be presented first, I believe that I could finish by the midday recess.

THE PRESIDENT: You can finish your documents before the adjournment, do you mean?

DR. PANNENBECKER: Yes. I believe so.

THE PRESIDENT: Until 1:00 o’clock?

DR. PANNENBECKER: Yes.

THE PRESIDENT: Are you indifferent whether you call the witness first or whether you present the documents first?

DR. PANNENBECKER: Yes.

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal thinks that perhaps it would be more convenient to give the documents first. They hope that you will be able to finish them reasonably quickly.

DR. PANNENBECKER: Yes.

Numbers 1, 2, and 3 of the document book (Documents Number 386-PS, L-79, and 3726-PS) deal with evidence concerning the question of whether the members of the Reich Cabinet knew about Hitler’s preparation for aggressive war. I need not read the documents; they have already been submitted, and they show that Hitler gave information of his plans for aggression only to those of his assistants who had to know of these plans for their own work, but did not inform Frick who, as Minister of the Interior, was responsible for the internal policy.

Within the scope of the war preparation, Frick was made Plenipotentiary for Reich Administration by the Reich Defense Law of 4 September 1938, which has already been submitted, Exhibit Number USA-36 (Document Number 2194-PS). This law does not indicate that this position had anything to do with the known preparation of an aggressive war; it shows only the participation of the Administration of the Interior in a general preparation and organization in the event of a future war. I have therefore included in the document book an excerpt from this law under Number 4 of the document book, in order to correct an error. The Defendant Frick himself stated in an affidavit on 14 November 1945, that he had held the position of Plenipotentiary for Reich Administration from 21 May 1935. This is the date of the first Reich Defense Law, which has already been submitted as Exhibit Number USA-24 (Document 2261-PS). The first Reich Defense Law of 21 May 1935, however, does not provide for the position of Plenipotentiary for Reich Administration; that is contained only in the second law of 4 September 1938.

This second law has been submitted under Exhibit Number USA-36. Following this erroneous statement which the Defendant Frick made without having the two laws on hand, the Prosecution has also stated that Frick held the position of Plenipotentiary for Reich Administration from 21 May 1935, while actually he held it only from 4 September 1938, that is, the date of the second law.

Numbers 5 and 6 of the document book have already been submitted by the Prosecution. They also prove nothing except the participation of the Defendant Frick in the establishment of civil administration with a view to a possible future war. It is not necessary to read this either.

The Prosecution considers Hitler’s aggressive intentions to be so well known and so obvious as to require no further proof. The Prosecution on that assumption came to the conclusion that participation in the National Socialist Government, in any field whatsoever, would in itself imply the conscious support of aggressive war. In opposition to that I have referred to evidence in documents from Number 7 to 10 inclusive of the Frick document book (Documents Number 2288-PS, 2292-PS, 2289-PS, and 3729-PS) which have already been submitted by the Prosecution and which show that Hitler in public, as well as in private conversations, from the time he came into power followed a definite policy of declaring his peaceful intentions—a policy, therefore, which for considered reasons, declared to all that to keep peace was right.

I believe that these documents, which have already been submitted to the Tribunal, must also be considered in order to decide whether or not Hitler’s official policy, since his coming to power, indicated that he had intentions of waging aggressive war. As evidence in that direction, I should like to submit Number 11 and Number 12 of the document book, which have not been presented until now, and which I will submit as Documents Frick-1 and -2.

The first is a telegram of 8 March 1936 from Cardinal Archbishop Schulte to the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces at the time of the occupation of the Rhineland in 1936. The second document is a solemn declaration by the Austrian bishops occasioned by the annexation of Austria in March 1938.

The first document states, and I quote:

“Cardinal Archbishop Schulte has sent to General Von Blomberg,
the Commander-in-Chief of the German Armed Forces, a telegram in
which, at the memorable hour when the Armed Forces of the Reich
are re-entering the German Rhineland as the guardians of peace
and order, he greets the soldiers of our nation with deep
emotion mindful of the magnificent example of self-sacrificing
love of fatherland, stern manly discipline, and upright fear of
God, which our Army has always given to the world.”